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Comments about the soundtrack for A.I. (John Williams)
Oscar Nod

goldsmith_fan
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  Responses to this Comment:
happy nightmare
Levente Benedek
Paris
Oscar Nod   Thursday, July 26, 2001 (7:36 a.m.) 

I think we all know that this is going to get nominated for best score at the oscars

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happy nightmare
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goldsmith_fan

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C. Hook
Re: Oscar Nod   Sunday, July 29, 2001 (4:13 p.m.) 

Oh of course it is. Regardless of wheather the score is good or not. The most popular or well known films of the year are always the one's going for best score.


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C. Hook
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  In Response to:
happy nightmare
Re: Oscar Nod   Tuesday, July 31, 2001 (7:03 p.m.) 

> Oh of course it is. Regardless of wheather the score is good or not. The
> most popular or well known films of the year are always the one's going
> for best score.

A.I. is no popular film. Still, Williams will sure be nominated either for A.I. or Harry Potter.

C. Hook

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Levente Benedek
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goldsmith_fan

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MeloManiac
Gav
Williams had been overrated again.   Wednesday, August 1, 2001 (9:34 a.m.) 

> I think we all know that this is going to get nominated for best score at
> the oscars

I have to say that John Williams always has a chance for an Oscar nomination even if he makes the worst music of the year. I think the Academy is overrating his works everytime. Like for AMISTAD or JFK. He made a very good theme for booth but the rest of it... When I first heard THE PATRIOT I knew that it will have a nomination because it has a very good music (which you can hear at the end credits, on the CD is "The Patriot Reprise") in only six minutes. SAVING PRIVATE RYAN is also the worst from 1998. Only "Hymn To The Fallen" is good. The rest of the music is the same every time: drums, solo trumpet. I think it was too monotonous. Like I sad he always makes a good opening or hymn or a great theme for each his films and that is why he has been nominated in almost every year. I don't know why he had nominations for such films like: NIXON, SABRINA, ROSEWOOD, and HOME ALONE. There is Hans Zimmer, Alan Silvestri and Jammes Newton Howard who are as good as Williams but they don't have mor than 30 Oscar nomination. For A.I. he had made a very good theme again, which you can also hear in the song. Which is very good and I hope the song will have an Oscar not the music. Because the music is an everage at it's best.

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MeloManiac
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  In Response to:
Levente Benedek

  Responses to this Comment:
Levente Benedek
Re: Williams had been overrated again.   Monday, August 6, 2001 (7:16 a.m.) 

> I have to say that John Williams always has a chance for an Oscar
> nomination even if he makes the worst music of the year. I think the
> Academy is overrating his works everytime. Like for AMISTAD or JFK. He
> made a very good theme for booth but the rest of it... When I first heard
> THE PATRIOT I knew that it will have a nomination because it has a very
> good music (which you can hear at the end credits, on the CD is "The
> Patriot Reprise") in only six minutes. SAVING PRIVATE RYAN is also
> the worst from 1998. Only "Hymn To The Fallen" is good. The rest
> of the music is the same every time: drums, solo trumpet. I think it was
> too monotonous. Like I sad he always makes a good opening or hymn or a
> great theme for each his films and that is why he has been nominated in
> almost every year. I don't know why he had nominations for such films
> like: NIXON, SABRINA, ROSEWOOD, and HOME ALONE. There is Hans Zimmer, Alan
> Silvestri and Jammes Newton Howard who are as good as Williams but they
> don't have mor than 30 Oscar nomination. For A.I. he had made a very good
> theme again, which you can also hear in the song. Which is very good and I
> hope the song will have an Oscar not the music. Because the music is an
> everage at it's best.

Well geeeee - maybe he gets nominated because his music serves the music incredibly well in 99% of his scores? Williams is NOT overrated - hes just a genius..



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Levente Benedek
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  In Response to:
MeloManiac

  Responses to this Comment:
MeloManiac
Tomek
Re: Williams had been overrated again.   Tuesday, August 7, 2001 (10:38 a.m.) 

> Well geeeee - maybe he gets nominated because his music serves the music
> incredibly well in 99% of his scores? Williams is NOT overrated - hes just
> a genius..

Than What about James Newton Howard's WATERWORLD, Goldsmith's THE GOST AND THE DARKNES, Hans Zimmer's BEYOOND RANGOON, THE HOUSE OF SPIRITS, BACKDRAFT, James Horner's ROCKETEER and WILLOW. These musicians had been wroten for these films a very good music, maybe too good for the Academy? And these works serves the music as well as you sad before. Why do you like Williams so much? For STAR WARS, for JAWS or for INDIANA JOENS? I dont care, it is your choice. But like I sad days before, when he makes music for a new film he always makes a good opening. But I have forgotten to say there are some exceptions. JURASIC PARK, THE PATRIOT and STAR WARS. These are very good CD's.
P.S.: There is a great composer a truly great composer whos name is ENNIO MORRICONE. You should learn this name MeloManiac!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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MeloManiac
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.dk)

  In Response to:
Levente Benedek

  Responses to this Comment:
Levente Benedek
Re: Williams had been overrated again.   Wednesday, August 8, 2001 (6:04 a.m.) 

> Than What about James Newton Howard's WATERWORLD, Goldsmith's THE GOST AND
> THE DARKNES, Hans Zimmer's BEYOOND RANGOON, THE HOUSE OF SPIRITS,
> BACKDRAFT, James Horner's ROCKETEER and WILLOW. These musicians had been
> wroten for these films a very good music, maybe too good for the Academy?
> And these works serves the music as well as you sad before. Why do you
> like Williams so much? For STAR WARS, for JAWS or for INDIANA JOENS? I
> dont care, it is your choice. But like I sad days before, when he makes
> music for a new film he always makes a good opening. But I have forgotten
> to say there are some exceptions. JURASIC PARK, THE PATRIOT and STAR WARS.
> These are very good CD's.
P.S.: There is a great composer a truly
> great composer whos name is ENNIO MORRICONE. You should learn this name
> MeloManiac!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why I like Williams? Because he does so many styles, because he writes beautiful themes, interesting action cues, has complicated and interesting compositions and orchestrations (unlike Goldsmith...), always writes music that fits the film and serves it well (unlike Horner and Zimmer often...). I know Morricone, so there really is no reason for me to learn his name. He is good, but nowhere near Williams IMHO...



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Levente Benedek
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  In Response to:
MeloManiac

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MeloManiac
Psygnnosed
Re: Williams had been overrated again.   Thursday, August 9, 2001 (9:41 a.m.) 

P.S.: There is a great composer a truly

> Why I like Williams? Because he does so many styles, because he writes
> beautiful themes, interesting action cues, has complicated and interesting
> compositions and orchestrations (unlike Goldsmith...), always writes music
> that fits the film and serves it well (unlike Horner and Zimmer often...).
> I know Morricone, so there really is no reason for me to learn his name.
> He is good, but nowhere near Williams IMHO...

Have you ever heard any other film music which is not from John Williams? I dont remember that John Williams have ever wrote any action music. For example: There is Jerry Goldsmith's TOLTAL RECALL, AIR FORCE ONE, MULAN, SMALL SOLDIERS, THE 13TH WARRIOR, James Horner's PATRIOT GAMES, CLEAR AND PRESENT DANGER, Hans Zimmer's THE ROCK, CRIMSON TIDE, GLADIATOR, MISSION:IMPOSSIBLE 2, THE PEACMAKER, BROKEN ARROW, BACKDRAFT. What is the difference betwen this pictures? Nothing, because these pictures have very great ACTION! musics. I have to warn you that STAR WARS is a sci-fi, not an action film.
I don't want to argue you, I only want to understand why the other composers are neglected? Just count how many films is on Goldsmith's and Morricone's list. P.S.: I agree whit you that Williams had writen very good themes so far, I like his JURASSIC PRAK theme. But listen THE ROCK main theme, which you can hear in track 1, on the CD. SPEED and ENEMY OF THE STATE has also good themes. Which means Williams is not the only one.

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MeloManiac
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  In Response to:
Levente Benedek

  Responses to this Comment:
Alex Lee
Re: Williams had been overrated again.   Friday, August 10, 2001 (8:27 a.m.) 

> P.S.: There is a great composer a truly

> Have you ever heard any other film music which is not from John Williams?
> I dont remember that John Williams have ever wrote any action music. For
> example: There is Jerry Goldsmith's TOLTAL RECALL, AIR FORCE ONE, MULAN,
> SMALL SOLDIERS, THE 13TH WARRIOR, James Horner's PATRIOT GAMES, CLEAR AND
> PRESENT DANGER, Hans Zimmer's THE ROCK, CRIMSON TIDE, GLADIATOR,
> MISSION:IMPOSSIBLE 2, THE PEACMAKER, BROKEN ARROW, BACKDRAFT. What is the
> difference betwen this pictures? Nothing, because these pictures have very
> great ACTION! musics. I have to warn you that STAR WARS is a sci-fi, not
> an action film.

I never said Williams did music for any specific action films. I just said he writes good ACTION music. I consider several cues from the Indy movies, Jurassic Park, Lost World, Star Wars, even E.T. etc. to be action cues. Hell I dont just CONSIDER it: They are. Why should I be interested in crap movies like MI, Peacermaker, Broken Arrow and Backdraft - which might have ACTION music, but I am not sure I agree the cues are good... Gladiator has at least one good action cue (but a horrible main theme). Patriot Games is definitely NOT an action movie. Only the last 30 mins of the movies can be called "action". The mvoie is a THRILLER. And it has some OK music. But generally many composers write very noisy and crappy action cues - especially Goldsmith (The Mummy - gimme a BREAK), whereas I generally find Williams´ actioncues actually to be listenable and quite melodic. There are exceptions of course.

>
I don't want to argue you, I only want to understand
> why the other composers are neglected? Just count how many films is on
> Goldsmith's and Morricone's list. P.S.: I agree whit you that Williams had
> writen very good themes so far, I like his JURASSIC PRAK theme. But listen
> THE ROCK main theme, which you can hear in track 1, on the CD. SPEED and
> ENEMY OF THE STATE has also good themes. Which means Williams is not the
> only one.

I never said that Williams was the only one. Just that he´s the only guy (of Horner, Zimmer and Williams) consistently writing interesting scores...


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Alex Lee
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  In Response to:
MeloManiac

  Responses to this Comment:
Levente Benedek
Levente Benedek
Re: Williams had been overrated again.   Friday, August 10, 2001 (7:47 p.m.) 

I think MeloManiac is right in the sense that Williams is one of very few who consistenly writes interesting music. Personally, with the exception of THE LOST WORLD, I have been generally very satisfied with his scores lately. The problem I am having with Horner is that a lot of his music sounds the same, and he uses same chord. I think the same thing can be said about Williams music to the extent that when you hear it, you go 'Of course, that's so John Williams.' But the way he does is by distinctly creating his own style, where as with Horner, I actually find a lot of his more interesting music sound the same. At the same time, I think Horner's also done some incredibly boring work (don't get me wrong, I enjoy about half of his soundtracks quite a bit), but I just don't fine that extra spart in his music that I do in Williams. For instance, SLEEPERS is a haunting score by Williams, and it'll give you chills; SHINDLER'S LIST make you very sentimental and emotional; and HOOK will make you incredibly nostalgic. With Horner, I find I only tend to identify with the kind of emotions I had felt watching the movies, and not too much beyond.

Jerry Goldsmith is a whole another story. The distinction I find between Williams and Goldsmith is that Goldsmith cares equally about cues and music working in the film as Williams does. (For instance, listen to BASIC INSTINCT by Goldsmith -- I've never heard orgasm so well orchestrated). But the reason I would rank Williams above Goldsmith is because Williams tends to, somehow, also come up with catchier melodies while letting the music work in the film. Goldsmith doesn't really go for cute-and-catchy tunes, but he goes for epic themes (e.g. MULAN). And epic themes might work better in the films, but when you listen to the CDs, you're more accustomed to catchy tunes. In this sense, I consider Williams' score more commercial (for better or for worse).

ENNIO MORICONE -- he used to be my favorite composer, and I agree that three films in particular (ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA, CINEMA PARADISO, and THE MISSION) are timeless. But I feel like he hasn't made any other scores lately that match up to the standards set by these three. If you can suggest me some, I'd be happy to try it.

All in all, I am not saying every score Williams writes is better than any of his peers' work; but I think to an extent it is safe to say that nobody writes with the consistency of producing great work as Williams does. Academy Award is not a good measure of judging soundtrack's worth, and for this reason, I do agree with Levente's comments.

Hope this added some insight.

Alex Lee

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Levente Benedek
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Alex Lee

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MeloManiac
Re: Why I started this.   Saturday, August 11, 2001 (6:34 a.m.) 

The reason why I strarted this Comment days before, because I was angry. Why? Every one was saying (as I had readed on the internet), that Williams is the best and like so. There are a lot of good composers, maybe not as good as Williams.And here is a question that troubles me: why is everybody saying that age is important in creating music. The younger composers like Silvestri, Zimmer, Horner, Howard, Rabin, Gregson Williams... and I can continue it, they are as equal as Williams. And they can make good music.
Maybe you won't believe it but in the past Williams was my favourite composer. But when I discoverd the other composers (you can read the names above), I have learn that there are so many of them, who can make good music. Which is very good for me, because I like the kind of music which is loud, that's why I like these composres. The other ting is that the Academy nominated him so many times, and the others had been forgotten. You see, I think he is not a bad composer. The main reason why I started this, because (well I think) the geniuse of Williams, the other composers are contempted.
P.S.: If I have offend you deeply MeloManiac, I'm sorry.

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MeloManiac
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  In Response to:
Levente Benedek
Re: Why I started this.   Sunday, August 12, 2001 (4:45 a.m.) 

Don't worry, you have not offended me - not even a little. But you did offend Williams a bit:)


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Levente Benedek
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Alex Lee

  Responses to this Comment:
juju-bean
Re: Williams had been overrated again.   Sunday, September 9, 2001 (7:11 a.m.) 

> ENNIO MORICONE -- he used to be my favorite composer, and I agree that
> three films in particular (ONCE UPON A TIME IN AMERICA, CINEMA PARADISO,
> and THE MISSION) are timeless. But I feel like he hasn't made any other
> scores lately that match up to the standards set by these three. If you
> can suggest me some, I'd be happy to try it.

There is MALENA; THE GOOD, THE BAD AND THE UGLY; THE UNTOUCHUBLES. I hope that I could help. It was a pleasure to read your letter. Finally that someone who likes other composers not yust Williams.

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juju-bean
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  In Response to:
Levente Benedek

  Responses to this Comment:
J. S.
Re: Williams had been overrated again.   Monday, February 25, 2002 (12:25 p.m.) 

Hey,

First off, IMO, I thought A.I. was a good score and probably should've been nominated. Harry Potter, on the other hand, maybe shouldn't have been. And I really doubt that Monsters Inc. was one of the 5 best scores of the year. I would've picked final fantasy over either of the 2 previously mentioned filmscores. Of course, i do think FoTR was a great score and will probably win.

Anyway, Your argument seemed to be that Williams is overated in general and you would like to see some of these other composers get nominated. I agree that the academy should maybe toss some other composers nominations, because i think perhaps some scores deserved it more than other scores that were nominated. I do however think that A.I. is a score that should've been nominated. It seems to fit the film quite well, and remember, regardless of how some ppl, perhaps including the academy, look at it, they should not be giving oscars out to scores that merely sound good on album. I think some of us tend to forget that we are listening to soundtracks to movies; they are not written to be listened to alone. If the score supports the film and helps it tell its story it is a good score. That is one of the reasons, i think, Williams is nominated so often, he is a good storyteller.

Zimmer, in my opinion, doesn't always write the quality of music that Williams does. Of course he has written some gems, 'Gladiator' was a good score i think, and 'the thin red line' was very good, etc. I also think As Good As it Gets was a good score, in that it fit the film very well.

Vangelis writes good music, but seems to sometimes disregard the film... I have to say, Chariots of Fire is a great, memorable, and beautiful theme, but does the score fit the film? Does it tell the story of the film, in any way? I don't feel it does.

Just to explain how i look at scores...

Some parts of scores, in relationship with the movie, are kind of homophonic, they accompany the the movie very precisely, and create a single texture, a blend of film and score. The Matrix, was written like this. In other movies many cues are written this way. I love that stuff :P To me it seems it would be very difficult to write and melds with the movie very well. However, other scores work more, i guess you could say: polyphonic, and these are fabulous too. The score works more independently of the film, and accents the mood, excitement. Of course this sort of score can shift from mood to mood with the movie, and can accent things very well. Not all scores need to hit off of things in the film to be good, they just have to support it... they can support ideas in the film, and ideas that are not present in the film. A simple example: Zimmer is scoring the scene to As Good As it Gets... Jack Nicholson, (I think Melvin in the movie, not sure) is sitting at his computer, writing a book. He is mumbling to himself about what he is writing... previously he has been interrupted by his gay neighbor who he seemingly hates. He is now sitting down at the computer to continue his writing. Its this romance novel, and he is mumbling about love, then as this look comes over his face (great acting by nicholson, btw) you hear the music express his thought... here, Zimmer's score captures the 'inspiration' that the character is feeling... it works perfectly. Of course the film continues on and just as the orchestra makes the statement there is a knock on the door... the music vanishes along with jack's expression. That is an instant, i think, where the score established a feeling in the film, that most viewers would probably have missed if there were no music.

I just get pissed off when i hear ppl complaining about scores, on album... Not specifically any of you guys on this forum, just in general i think that sometimes we get confused and need a push back in the right direction. The score is part of the *FILM*. I think this is important especially when talking about who is better than who, and who deserves this award. Anyway, I seemed to have lost track so... let me get back...

Now, you guys were also arguing about action music... Zimmer scores sooooo much of this stuff... he has gotten good at getting your heart pounding to the rhythm of rapid machine gun fire. Yes, Zimmer's music in most action cues supports the film, and hits off of things in the film. However, lots of this can be done differently, and instead of using complex, sometimes not, electronic rhythms john williams uses the entire orchestra to express excitement, in most of his scores. Think of jaws... now compare any of zimmer's action cues to the tense build up of jaws? And think of the cue from the 3rd Indiana Jones film: when they are on the speed boats and they are getting sucked every second closer to the spinning propeller... you can hear the orchestra imitating what is seen on the screen... the woosh, woosh of the propeller... i find that very creative, and it effectivly supported the film. I think williams can score suspense and action exceptionally well. But, even if he didn't score action (which he definately has), what is that? is that a sin? I, of course, don't have experience in any of this, but i would think that it would be more difficult to portray emotions that are present in a film like A.I. than any action cue.

I'm not trying to insult zimmer, or vangelis... I think they are both great film composers... And maybe the academy unfairly favors williams, which i think they might. But, I conclude that williams has earned his title in full as the "caesar" of film music -as of the last 50 years ... and i think belittling him, and stating that he is overrated is folly.

--- Grrrr...

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J. S.
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  In Response to:
juju-bean
Re: Williams had been overrated again.   Tuesday, February 28, 2006 (10:58 a.m.) 

Keep in mind that John Williams doesn't always write his own scores. I know someone in the business who has written at least one score for him, but he is under contract and is not allowed to say what scores he has actually done.

Williams is kinda like Thomas Edison. He basically pays people to do the work, then slaps his name on it.

> Hey,

> First off, IMO, I thought A.I. was a good score and probably should've
> been nominated. Harry Potter, on the other hand, maybe shouldn't have
> been. And I really doubt that Monsters Inc. was one of the 5 best scores
> of the year. I would've picked final fantasy over either of the 2
> previously mentioned filmscores. Of course, i do think FoTR was a great
> score and will probably win.

> Anyway, Your argument seemed to be that Williams is overated in general
> and you would like to see some of these other composers get nominated. I
> agree that the academy should maybe toss some other composers nominations,
> because i think perhaps some scores deserved it more than other scores
> that were nominated. I do however think that A.I. is a score that
> should've been nominated. It seems to fit the film quite well, and
> remember, regardless of how some ppl, perhaps including the academy, look
> at it, they should not be giving oscars out to scores that merely sound
> good on album. I think some of us tend to forget that we are listening to
> soundtracks to movies; they are not written to be listened to alone. If
> the score supports the film and helps it tell its story it is a good
> score. That is one of the reasons, i think, Williams is nominated so
> often, he is a good storyteller.

> Zimmer, in my opinion, doesn't always write the quality of music that
> Williams does. Of course he has written some gems, 'Gladiator' was a good
> score i think, and 'the thin red line' was very good, etc. I also think As
> Good As it Gets was a good score, in that it fit the film very well.

> Vangelis writes good music, but seems to sometimes disregard the film... I
> have to say, Chariots of Fire is a great, memorable, and beautiful theme,
> but does the score fit the film? Does it tell the story of the film, in
> any way? I don't feel it does.

> Just to explain how i look at scores...

> Some parts of scores, in relationship with the movie, are kind of
> homophonic, they accompany the the movie very precisely, and create a
> single texture, a blend of film and score. The Matrix, was written like
> this. In other movies many cues are written this way. I love that stuff :P
> To me it seems it would be very difficult to write and melds with the
> movie very well. However, other scores work more, i guess you could say:
> polyphonic, and these are fabulous too. The score works more independently
> of the film, and accents the mood, excitement. Of course this sort of
> score can shift from mood to mood with the movie, and can accent things
> very well. Not all scores need to hit off of things in the film to be
> good, they just have to support it... they can support ideas in the film,
> and ideas that are not present in the film. A simple example: Zimmer is
> scoring the scene to As Good As it Gets... Jack Nicholson, (I think Melvin
> in the movie, not sure) is sitting at his computer, writing a book. He is
> mumbling to himself about what he is writing... previously he has been
> interrupted by his gay neighbor who he seemingly hates. He is now sitting
> down at the computer to continue his writing. Its this romance novel, and
> he is mumbling about love, then as this look comes over his face (great
> acting by nicholson, btw) you hear the music express his thought... here,
> Zimmer's score captures the 'inspiration' that the character is feeling...
> it works perfectly. Of course the film continues on and just as the
> orchestra makes the statement there is a knock on the door... the music
> vanishes along with jack's expression. That is an instant, i think, where
> the score established a feeling in the film, that most viewers would
> probably have missed if there were no music.

> I just get pissed off when i hear ppl complaining about scores, on
> album... Not specifically any of you guys on this forum, just in general i
> think that sometimes we get confused and need a push back in the right
> direction. The score is part of the *FILM*. I think this is important
> especially when talking about who is better than who, and who deserves
> this award. Anyway, I seemed to have lost track so... let me get back...

> Now, you guys were also arguing about action music... Zimmer scores sooooo
> much of this stuff... he has gotten good at getting your heart pounding to
> the rhythm of rapid machine gun fire. Yes, Zimmer's music in most action
> cues supports the film, and hits off of things in the film. However, lots
> of this can be done differently, and instead of using complex, sometimes
> not, electronic rhythms john williams uses the entire orchestra to express
> excitement, in most of his scores. Think of jaws... now compare any of
> zimmer's action cues to the tense build up of jaws? And think of the cue
> from the 3rd Indiana Jones film: when they are on the speed boats and they
> are getting sucked every second closer to the spinning propeller... you
> can hear the orchestra imitating what is seen on the screen... the woosh,
> woosh of the propeller... i find that very creative, and it effectivly
> supported the film. I think williams can score suspense and action
> exceptionally well. But, even if he didn't score action (which he
> definately has), what is that? is that a sin? I, of course, don't have
> experience in any of this, but i would think that it would be more
> difficult to portray emotions that are present in a film like A.I. than
> any action cue.

> I'm not trying to insult zimmer, or vangelis... I think they are both
> great film composers... And maybe the academy unfairly favors williams,
> which i think they might. But, I conclude that williams has earned his
> title in full as the "caesar" of film music -as of the last 50
> years ... and i think belittling him, and stating that he is overrated
> is folly.

> --- Grrrr...


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Psygnnosed
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  In Response to:
Levente Benedek

  Responses to this Comment:
Levente Benedek
Re: Williams had been overrated again.   Saturday, September 1, 2001 (12:05 p.m.) 

Well, for a start, John Williams is NEVER overrated, I mean... after all, he IS the best composer of the... what? Last 50 years???? All the composers mentioned are amazing, though, many of them, being very young have been influenced by Williams' style, and I know very well most of the composers mentioned. If J.W. is nominated every year by the Academy... well, good 4 him, what's one more or one less Oscar in a carreer like his? It means that the Academy realy loves his work, and even winning 5 Oscars, how many has he unfairly lost? There's one particular composer, James Horner, he is very good, but most of his work is copied from other works, I suggest you listen to "Holst: The Planets" - a classical composition. Horner has even copied Williams' theme from Schindler in Enemy at the Gates (check the first minutes of music nr. 2). Even being deeply inspired in Wagner's work, Williams always comes up with great scores, great themes, always rich, always with some sort of evolution, things like Jurassic, Schindler, E.T. are patrimony of mankind!!!! He has composed some lesser soundtrack, true, but... look at the number os soundtracks he has created that marked history - just take Star Wars and Indiana Jones, two of the most known themes of the past 25 years. Williams is among the very great ones....

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Levente Benedek
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Psygnnosed

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MSM
Re: Williams had been overrated again.   Friday, September 7, 2001 (10:39 a.m.) 

He has
> composed some lesser soundtrack, true, but... look at the number os
> soundtracks he has created that marked history - just take Star Wars and
> Indiana Jones, two of the most known themes of the past 25 years. Williams
> is among the very great ones....

John Williams wrote about 150 score in 25 years. Jerry Goldsmith wrote 300 scores in 42 years. Ennio Morricone wrote more than 400 scores in the same years like Goldsmith did. Now compare the nominations: more than 30, 19 and 5. It is very cruel from the Academy. Williams always wrote dripping music and he never wrotes any good action music. I agree that he wrotes good themes, but that is all.


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MSM
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  In Response to:
Levente Benedek

  Responses to this Comment:
Levente Benedek
Levente Benedek
Re: Williams had been overrated again.   Tuesday, March 12, 2002 (7:58 a.m.) 

> John Williams wrote about 150 score in 25 years. Jerry Goldsmith wrote 300
> scores in 42 years. Ennio Morricone wrote more than 400 scores in the same
> years like Goldsmith did. Now compare the nominations: more than 30, 19
> and 5. It is very cruel from the Academy. Williams always wrote dripping
> music and he never wrotes any good action music. I agree that he wrotes
> good themes, but that is all.

What you give is a fine indication of the quality of the music of those composers, although your knowledge about the number of scores by Williams (92 scores in 43 years, 50 in the last 25 years) as well as his number of nominations (41 in total, 30 in the last 25 years), AND about the other two composers you name (Goldsmith: 98 scores in 50 years, 18 nominations; Morricone: 389 scores in 41 years, 5 nominations), show that you don't even know what you are talking about.
I calculated the percentages of nominations against written scores:
Williams: 44.6 %
Goldsmith: 18.4 %
Morricone: 1.3 %
You say this is because prejudice of the Academy? Don't be stupid. Look at the numbers of golden globe nominations (Williams: 18, Goldsmith: 6, Morricone: 6)and draw the one RIGHT conclusion.

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Levente Benedek
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MSM
Re: Williams had been overrated again.   Tuesday, March 12, 2002 (9:57 a.m.) 

My friend. My knowledge about the three composers was correct.
Jerry Goldsmith:
#1 score:
"Studio One" (1948) TV Series
... aka "Studio One Summer Theatre" (1948) (summer title)
... aka "Studio One in Hollywood" (1958) (new title)
... aka "Summer Theatre" (1948) (summer title)
... aka "Westinghouse Studio One" (1948)
... aka "Westinghouse Summer Theatre" (1948) (summer title)
# 260 score
Haunted Lighthouse (2002)
... aka Haunted Lighthouse (2002) (USA)
... aka R.L. Stein's Haunted Lighthouse (2002) (USA: complete title)

Ennio Morricone:
#1 score

Federale, Il (1961)

... aka Fascist, The (1961)
#433 score

Ripley's Game (2002)

John Williams:
#1 score

"Today" (1952) TV Series (1985-????)

... aka "NBC News Today" (1952) (USA: promotional title)

... aka "Today Show, The" (1952) (USA)
#164 score

Catch Me If You Can (2002)

And I also understand your calculation. I didn't wrote my letter in the past, because I hate John Williams. I wrote because I think he is overrated BY THE ACADEMY. That is all. I like Williams, I think Star Wars is a great score. All of it. And I do have other Williams scores.
No hard feelings my friend.



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Levente Benedek
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MSM
Re: Williams had been overrated again.   Tuesday, March 12, 2002 (10:06 a.m.) 

My friend. My knowledge about the three composers was correct.
Jerry Goldsmith:
#1 score:
"Studio One" (1948) TV Series
... aka "Studio One Summer Theatre" (1948) (summer title)
... aka "Studio One in Hollywood" (1958) (new title)
... aka "Summer Theatre" (1948) (summer title)
... aka "Westinghouse Studio One" (1948)
... aka "Westinghouse Summer Theatre" (1948) (summer title)
# 260 score
Haunted Lighthouse (2002)
... aka Haunted Lighthouse (2002) (USA)
... aka R.L. Stein's Haunted Lighthouse (2002) (USA: complete title)

Ennio Morricone:
#1 score
Federale, Il (1961)
... aka Fascist, The (1961)
#433 score
Ripley's Game (2002)

John Williams:
#1 score
"Today" (1952) TV Series (1985-????)
... aka "NBC News Today" (1952) (USA: promotional title)
... aka "Today Show, The" (1952) (USA)
#164 score
Catch Me If You Can (2002)

And I also understand your calculation. I didn't wrote my letter in the past, because I hate John Williams. I wrote because I think he is overrated BY THE ACADEMY. That is all. I like Williams, I think Star Wars is a great score. All of it. And I do have other Williams scores.
No hard feelings my friend.



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Tomek
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  In Response to:
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Levente Benedek
Re: Williams had been overrated again.   Thursday, October 18, 2001 (3:34 p.m.) 

> Than What about James Newton Howard's WATERWORLD, Goldsmith's THE GOST AND
> THE DARKNES, Hans Zimmer's BEYOOND RANGOON, THE HOUSE OF SPIRITS,
> BACKDRAFT, James Horner's ROCKETEER and WILLOW. These musicians had been
> wroten for these films a very good music, maybe too good for the Academy?
> And these works serves the music as well as you sad before. Why do you
> like Williams so much? For STAR WARS, for JAWS or for INDIANA JOENS? I
> dont care, it is your choice. But like I sad days before, when he makes
> music for a new film he always makes a good opening. But I have forgotten
> to say there are some exceptions. JURASIC PARK, THE PATRIOT and STAR WARS.
> These are very good CD's.
P.S.: There is a great composer a truly
> great composer whos name is ENNIO MORRICONE. You should learn this name
> MeloManiac!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I adore John Williams and Ennio Morricone. So what. I don't understand why people taking so much care with all these Oscar-buzz and nominations. You've got right : Waterworld, Backdraft or mentioned by you Willow are absolutely terriic scores, better than some of Williams' ones. But he is a all-time favorite for Academy and that's because he 30 or something nominations. He also writes for Spielberg and all in all for very good or good movies ( not only Spielberg's). You must admit that couple of times he didn't recieved the Award for some spectacular music (Raiders, Born of the Fourth of July or 7 Years in Tibet). The same thing with Morricone: The Mission ( lost to Jazz-movie) or Once Upon a Time in America or Casualties of War haven't been even nominated. The Mission and Once Upon... are in my Top-10 of all-time.Have you ever heard Secrets of Sahara- unbeliveble.The next thing is that films like Waterworld or Willow or The Ghost... weren't too artistic or highly acclaimed- those haven't any chance in run for Oscars.
So the conclusion is the music only counts, forget the Awards.
What do you say about:The Matrix, Seven Years in Tibet, ID4, Dragonheart, Cutthoart Island, Stargate, The Piano, Dracula, Bacdraft, Crimson Tide, The Abyss, Batman, Predator- superb ones but even not nominated.

Cheers
Tomek

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Levente Benedek
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Tomek
Re: Williams had been overrated again.   Friday, October 19, 2001 (10:20 a.m.) 

P.S.: There is a great composer a truly

> I adore John Williams and Ennio Morricone. So what. I don't understand why
> people taking so much care with all these Oscar-buzz and nominations.
> You've got right : Waterworld, Backdraft or mentioned by you Willow are
> absolutely terriic scores, better than some of Williams' ones. But he is a
> all-time favorite for Academy and that's because he 30 or something
> nominations. He also writes for Spielberg and all in all for very good or
> good movies ( not only Spielberg's). You must admit that couple of times
> he didn't recieved the Award for some spectacular music (Raiders, Born of
> the Fourth of July or 7 Years in Tibet). The same thing with Morricone:
> The Mission ( lost to Jazz-movie) or Once Upon a Time in America or
> Casualties of War haven't been even nominated. The Mission and Once
> Upon... are in my Top-10 of all-time.Have you ever heard Secrets of
> Sahara- unbeliveble.The next thing is that films like Waterworld or Willow
> or The Ghost... weren't too artistic or highly acclaimed- those haven't
> any chance in run for Oscars.
So the conclusion is the music only
> counts, forget the Awards.
What do you say about:The Matrix, Seven
> Years in Tibet, ID4, Dragonheart, Cutthoart Island, Stargate, The Piano,
> Dracula, Bacdraft, Crimson Tide, The Abyss, Batman, Predator- superb ones
> but even not nominated.

> Cheers
Tomek

You have alredy told the answer. That the Academy likes him very much and he works for Spielberg. The films you have listed are really good musics and some of those should had a nomination.
But if you know that Anne Dudley won an Oscar for Full Monthy, and David Newman's ANASTASIA and Hans Zimmer's AS GOOD AS IT GETS lost.
So where's the truth?

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musician13yrs
Re: Williams had been overrated again.   Friday, January 3, 2003 (5:05 p.m.) 

I don't believe this!

My friend and I were *just* discussing this a matter of hours ago. Let's be honest here - John Williams is overrated. Sure, his themes are brilliant - memorable pieces of music that stick with you forever. However, the rest of his music leaves a lot to be desired. Bland, orchestral tracks that all really sound the same.

You compare his work to passionate composers like Hans Zimmer, Harry Gregson-Williams (MGS 2 is a brilliant soundtrack - and it's a game!), David Arnold and John Barry and you see the difference. Williams' problem is that he doesn't branch out - it's just seems like brass, brass, brass all the time. He needs to try something different and stop working with Spielberg all the time. BRANCH OUT! BE DIFFERENT! His music is just getting too monotonous.

And its hilarious to see his fans in this very thread writing things along the lines of "Williams is great... look at all his great themes." Yeah, and great they are. And so... what about his other stuff?

I've never been one for following the trend, never been one for acting like a sheep because everyone else is. I am very much my own person. I like a whole variety of film composers but Williams consistently fails to interest me with anything more than his themes.

Williams is only liked because it's "cool" to like him. You mention to one of your casual movie-viewing friends that you have, for example, John Williams score to ATTACK OF THE CLONES and they'll probably be impressed. But you say you have the soundtrack to METAL GEAR SOLID 2, BROKEN ARROW, A VIEW TO A KILL or TOMORROW NEVER DIES and they'll not be able to pick themselves up from the ground for aching with laughter.

Something else which I found hilarous, and this is the honest truth God strike me down. I was looking for a CD before Christmas and saw a CD set - "John William's Greatest Hits". And I said to myself before picking it up, "If it's all just themes, I'll probably laugh right here cos that's all he's really good for". I picked up the case, and the back of the case simply read "Themes from:" and went on to list a whole load of themes he had written for movies! Hardly a greatest hits compilation!

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musician13yrs
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  In Response to:
Gav
Re: Williams had been overrated again.   Tuesday, November 6, 2007 (5:48 p.m.) 
• Now Playing: schindlers piano theme  

> I don't believe this!

> My friend and I were *just* discussing this a matter of hours ago. Let's
> be honest here - John Williams is overrated. Sure, his themes are
> brilliant - memorable pieces of music that stick with you forever.
> However, the rest of his music leaves a lot to be desired. Bland,
> orchestral tracks that all really sound the same.

> You compare his work to passionate composers like Hans Zimmer, Harry
> Gregson-Williams (MGS 2 is a brilliant soundtrack - and it's a game!),
> David Arnold and John Barry and you see the difference. Williams' problem
> is that he doesn't branch out - it's just seems like brass, brass, brass
> all the time. He needs to try something different and stop working with
> Spielberg all the time. BRANCH OUT! BE DIFFERENT! His music is just
> getting too monotonous.

> And its hilarious to see his fans in this very thread writing things along
> the lines of "Williams is great... look at all his great
> themes." Yeah, and great they are. And so... what about his other
> stuff?

> I've never been one for following the trend, never been one for acting
> like a sheep because everyone else is. I am very much my own person. I
> like a whole variety of film composers but Williams consistently fails to
> interest me with anything more than his themes.

> Williams is only liked because it's "cool" to like him. You
> mention to one of your casual movie-viewing friends that you have, for
> example, John Williams score to ATTACK OF THE CLONES and they'll probably
> be impressed. But you say you have the soundtrack to METAL GEAR SOLID 2,
> BROKEN ARROW, A VIEW TO A KILL or TOMORROW NEVER DIES and they'll not be
> able to pick themselves up from the ground for aching with laughter.

> Something else which I found hilarous, and this is the honest truth God
> strike me down. I was looking for a CD before Christmas and saw a CD set -
> "John William's Greatest Hits". And I said to myself before
> picking it up, "If it's all just themes, I'll probably laugh right
> here cos that's all he's really good for". I picked up the case, and
> the back of the case simply read "Themes from:" and went on to
> list a whole load of themes he had written for movies! Hardly a greatest
> hits compilation!
well, your slow arn't you? jeez i wonder why all his music is themes? cause he's a frigen movie composer! e works with telivision and movie arts for a reason stupid, its his job, but as he's still most respect by thirteen year olds like me its pretty amazing work, and maybe pick up the cd yo-yo ma OR B.S.O cause theyre not movie themes , there actual sonatas and sin fonietta's so before you tell him to branch out, read the home work assignment and research, get your facts strait, and as for spielberg tell him to branch out not williams, its always him who requests williams not the other way around, and the reason spielberge picks him is for his originality, so wat your smokin i do not know!

(Message edited on Wednesday, November 7, 2007, at 7:31 a.m.)


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Paris
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S.Venkatnarayanan
Richard Kleiner
Re: Oscar Nod   Friday, May 9, 2008 (1:16 a.m.) 

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You must be crazy! go to hell Satan is waiting for you *NM*   Wednesday, May 14, 2008 (2:20 a.m.) 



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Richard Kleiner
DON'T READ THE POST THAT THIS ONE COMES OUT OF. You'll regret it *NM*   Saturday, October 10, 2009 (10:34 p.m.) 



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Wait a minute... I just noticed my post is in caps *NM*   Saturday, June 26, 2010 (6:15 p.m.) 



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