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Comments about the soundtrack for Conan the Barbarian (Tyler Bates/Various)
He's not a Hack

Pablo
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  Responses to this Comment:
David
Erik Woods
Richard Kleiner
Ds
Paul
He's not a Hack   Tuesday, August 9, 2011 (6:51 a.m.) 

Like so many composers that came and went in the 80s - hell, even since the inception of film scoring - his music is what it is. The projects he takes on are not as "blockbustery" as you might say, and there's a reason for that, yes.

BUT if you're gonna review the man's score work dont go by other's works. Unless you plan on judging by his own work, at least watch the film first, find out where each cue sits in the movie, develop a feel for the score through acclimation, and then make your criticism. Reason I say this is because this review seems to be more about Remote Control hate and Poledouris worship than Tyler Bates and his craft. Meanwhile you have a film that was tossed into the August release month for a reason - because nobody really gives a crap about the film.

And to call the guy is plaigarist is ass-inine. Really. Look at James Horner who plaigerises his OWN damn work and gives you the same score for every film he does. This plaigerist rant is irrelevent.

I think the reviewer would probably fare better reviewing scores he likes rather than the ones he doesnt like, because all the reviews so far are total negativity. Plus Im sure theres scores out there he might appreciate more...


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David
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Re: He's not a Hack   Tuesday, August 9, 2011 (8:08 a.m.) 

> Like so many composers that came and went in the 80s - hell, even since
> the inception of film scoring - his music is what it is. The projects he
> takes on are not as "blockbustery" as you might say, and there's
> a reason for that, yes.

> BUT if you're gonna review the man's score work dont go by other's works.
> Unless you plan on judging by his own work, at least watch the film first,
> find out where each cue sits in the movie, develop a feel for the score
> through acclimation, and then make your criticism. Reason I say this is
> because this review seems to be more about Remote Control hate and
> Poledouris worship than Tyler Bates and his craft. Meanwhile you have a
> film that was tossed into the August release month for a reason - because
> nobody really gives a crap about the film.

> And to call the guy is plaigarist is ass-inine. Really. Look at James
> Horner who plaigerises his OWN damn work and gives you the same score for
> every film he does. This plaigerist rant is irrelevent.

> I think the reviewer would probably fare better reviewing scores he likes
> rather than the ones he doesnt like, because all the reviews so far are
> total negativity. Plus Im sure theres scores out there he might appreciate
> more...

I agree. I didn't liked the review, it seems like it was wanting to hate this score, though Bates worked really hard with it. And the whole hack thing is just stupid, if you don't like Bates's music, don't listen to it and that's it.

Or listen The Way, that one is another side of Bates.



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Erik Woods
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Pablo
Re: He's not a Hack   Tuesday, August 9, 2011 (9:07 a.m.) 

> And to call the guy is plaigarist is ass-inine. Really. Look at James
> Horner who plaigerises his OWN damn work and gives you the same score for
> every film he does. This plaigerist rant is irrelevent.

Please learn the definition of plagiarize and then re-word your rant!



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Richard Kleiner
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Pablo
He's a composer of boring scores   Tuesday, August 9, 2011 (2:42 p.m.) 

Yeah, he's not a hack. He just has the fame of writing music focused on ambiance, texture and mood and not on form or melody. Which, compared to Poledouris', is inferior.

(Message edited on Tuesday, August 9, 2011, at 2:46 p.m.)


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Pablo
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Richard Kleiner
Re: He's a composer of boring scores   Tuesday, August 9, 2011 (6:37 p.m.) 

> Yeah, he's not a hack. He just has the fame of writing music focused on
> ambiance, texture and mood and not on form or melody. Which, compared to
> Poledouris', is inferior.

1: Clearly you haven't heard much of Bates' work.
2: To say that Poledouris' music doesnt have a focus on ambience texture or mood doesnt really make him any better.
3: Poledouris is dead, gotta have music coming from SOMEONE.
4: No one asked for this Conan remake anyway. You expect Poledouris to score this pile of crap movie? See Number 3.

Give Bates some credit. He's actually getting film scores, people like his work, and really, he's a pretty nice guy (as opposed to some snobby, deluded composers).


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Richard Kleiner
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Pablo
Re: He's a composer of boring scores   Tuesday, August 9, 2011 (6:53 p.m.) 

> 1: Clearly you haven't heard much of Bates' work.

I say this based on 300, Watchmen and The Day the Earth Stood Still. Watchmen, I enjoyed a little bit more than the rest. On the whole, they're pretty boring works.

> 2: To say that Poledouris' music doesnt have a focus on ambience texture
> or mood doesnt really make him any better.

It has a focus on themes ANDambience, texture and mood.

> 3: Poledouris is dead, gotta have music coming from SOMEONE.

*Facepalm*

> 4: No one asked for this Conan remake anyway. You expect Poledouris to
> score this pile of crap movie? See Number 3.

He scored Conan the Destroyer and RoboCop 3.

> Give Bates some credit. He's actually getting film scores, people like his
> work, and really, he's a pretty nice guy (as opposed to some snobby,
> deluded composers).

I'm pretty sure he can be an interesting person to talk to, but I've seen some of his interviews, and he doesn't sound entirely modest. Keep in mind I don't hate the man. Even if he was my best friend, I'd still wouldn't think highly of the scores I've heard written by him, which I still find to be boring.

If, indeed, his musical style is as varied as you imply, please, (without sarcasm) recommend a different sounding score by him, so I can widen my vision.


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Pablo
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Richard Kleiner
Craig
Mike Jacobs
Re: He's a composer of boring scores   Wednesday, August 10, 2011 (8:48 a.m.) 

> I say this based on 300, Watchmen and The Day the Earth Stood Still.
> Watchmen, I enjoyed a little bit more than the rest. On the whole, they're
> pretty boring works.

Pouledoris' body of work is also fairly boring. Not much different, really.

> He scored Conan the Destroyer and RoboCop 3.

Again, look at his body of work...These titles just scream classic material. Seriously, based on Bates' body of work, theyre not too different from one another.

> I'm pretty sure he can be an interesting person to talk to, but I've seen
> some of his interviews, and he doesn't sound entirely modest. Keep in mind
> I don't hate the man. Even if he was my best friend, I'd still wouldn't
> think highly of the scores I've heard written by him, which I still find
> to be boring.

> If, indeed, his musical style is as varied as you imply, please, (without
> sarcasm) recommend a different sounding score by him, so I can widen my
> vision.

Same goes for me and Pouledouris' CV. I honestly don't find his work to be all that memorable, outside of maybe a few titles or themes. And this is given the greater amount of exposure he has had over Bates so far.


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Richard Kleiner
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Re: He's a composer of boring scores   Wednesday, August 10, 2011 (9:12 a.m.) 

Are you're saying this argument will end with "ah, it's all a matter of tastes"?

Crap.


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Craig
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Pablo
Hastaj00
Re: He's a composer of boring scores   Wednesday, August 10, 2011 (9:21 a.m.) 

> Pouledoris' body of work is also fairly boring. Not much different,
> really.

> Again, look at his body of work...These titles just scream classic
> material. Seriously, based on Bates' body of work, theyre not too
> different from one another.

> Same goes for me and Pouledouris' CV. I honestly don't find his work to be
> all that memorable, outside of maybe a few titles or themes. And this is
> given the greater amount of exposure he has had over Bates so far.

Gentlemen, at your convenience please review any of these Poledouris scores: Quigley Down Under, Cherry 2000, Flesh + Blood, Lonesome Dove, Farewell to the King, Starship Troopers, or Les Misérables.

These are truly amazing soundtracks, and leave little room for further debate within this discussion thread.



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Pablo
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Re: He's a composer of boring scores   Wednesday, August 10, 2011 (4:59 p.m.) 

LOL gettin uppity about music composers...both of which aren't high caliber artists to begin with, yet have both been paired together for comparison.

Hell, so far the CV of both seems to be practically identical..lol. Thanks for giving the examples.



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Hastaj00
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I think Pablo is a young girl from Thailand *NM*   Wednesday, August 10, 2011 (8:13 p.m.) 



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Mike Jacobs
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Pablo

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Pablo
I am at a loss for words.   Wednesday, August 10, 2011 (9:53 a.m.) 

> Pouledoris' body of work is also fairly boring. Not much different, really.

Such stunning ignorance of modern film music history is beyond all reasoning.



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Pablo
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Re: I am at a loss for words.   Wednesday, August 10, 2011 (5:06 p.m.) 

> Such stunning ignorance of modern film music history is beyond all
> reasoning.

Im not at a loss for words - check this out:

Im at a loss for words that you'd use the word "ignorance" to subject one's preference in music. Now THERE'S stunning ignorance.

Yes I think Basil's music (outside of what he did in Robocop, which was pinnacle for him) isn't all that memorable to me. Honestly with the themes he has it IS comparable to Bates' music, so thanks for bringing him up...

- now why would you get mad at this statement when the reviews on this site are similarly biased? Not everybody cares for Poledouris' work, son.


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Hastaj00
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HeyThere
Re: I am at a loss for words.   Wednesday, August 10, 2011 (8:12 p.m.) 

imo Poledouris' "Starship Troopers" is one of the best scores of the past 20 years.

Pablo, ever hear "The Hunt For Red October"? I assume not.

take a listen: (copy/paste url)

http://www.joshfarc.com/stuff/mp3s/Hunt%20For%20Red%20October%20-%20Main%20Title.mp3

"Free Willy" was also a good score. Main Title and the action music is inspired.

again, listen:

http://www.joshfarc.com/stuff/mp3s/Free%20Willy%20-%20Main%20Title.mp3

"Robocop" is a fun sci-fi score with a classic (cheese) theme and creative use of synths and orchestra, and began the working relationship of Poledouris and Paul Verhoeven, of which I am grateful.

There are some other works of his that I never got to listening to (or seeing the movies), like "Les Miserables" and "The Jungle Book", as well as a host of scores from the 80's (overall, it seems like the 80's was his peak as a composer; sounds about right, as you sound like you're about 15 years old, and likely wouldn't be all that familiar with the older stuff).

You have to recognize something though. Film music has been around for a long time; Hollywood is now almost a century old. Basil's score for "Conan the Barbarian" is considered by MOST fans of the medium to be one of the greatest scores ever written. It's not even comparable. And, as good as some of Poledouris' other works have been, none eclipsed, or even came close really to "Conan".

But I can tell you this, Tyler Bates will never, ever ever ever, ever ever ever ever, write anything remotely as good as Basil's "Conan".



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Pablo
Re: I am at a loss for words.   Wednesday, August 10, 2011 (9:24 p.m.) 

> But I can tell you this, Tyler Bates will never, ever ever ever, ever ever
> ever ever, write anything remotely as good as Basil's "Conan".

Never say never


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Pablo
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Re: I am at a loss for words.   Friday, August 12, 2011 (7:25 a.m.) 

> Never say never

Exactly. You have to give Bates credit. Why? Because 1: he's pretty much on par with Poldedouris as far as exposure and movie credits go. 2: His music isn't all that mainstream 3: They are both film composers of different generations and 4: Poledouris has had WAY more time to develop his scoring tech. over the last 20 years before he died, and to be brutally fair, it wasn't all that great.

5: It's a CONAN movie...no need to add salt to my french fries.


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Solaris
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@Pablo   Saturday, August 13, 2011 (6:32 a.m.) 
• Now Playing: Bleach: The DiamondDust Rebellion (Shiro Sagisu)  

Just a suggestion: You are entitled to have your opinion but you wont change anyones' Mind about Bates and his music; I dont think that theres much need to argue further.

For my part, I'm probably one of the more 'Bates-friendly' People around here. I like some of his Scores ("Watchmen" especially) and found merit in others (except most of his Horror-Scores). Judging from the Samples, I even could put together a decent Suite for "Conan" (comprising the few calmer Cues). Even so, I hold Poledouris in much higher esteem than Bates, given the general enjoyability of his Output and the number of memorable Themes.

If you adore Bates' Music as much as you seemingly do, then I have no problem with it. I respect your standpoint, even if I dont quite understand it in regards to Poledouris. But theres no use defending this Standpoint to the death.

(Message edited on Saturday, August 13, 2011, at 6:33 a.m.)


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Soundhawk
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Re: I am at a loss for words.   Saturday, August 13, 2011 (10:14 a.m.) 

> Exactly. You have to give Bates credit. Why? Because 1: he's pretty much
> on par with Poldedouris as far as exposure and movie credits go.

sad little man you be, so misinformed and silly !



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Ds
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Pablo
Re: He's not a Hack   Wednesday, August 10, 2011 (7:07 p.m.) 

> I think the reviewer would probably fare better reviewing scores he likes
> rather than the ones he doesnt like, because all the reviews so far are
> total negativity. Plus Im sure theres scores out there he might appreciate
> more...

YEAH, FUÇK FILMTRACKS!


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Paul
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Pablo

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SolarisLem
Soundhawk
Fundamental errors of judgement   Wednesday, August 10, 2011 (7:28 p.m.) 

> BUT if you're gonna review the man's score work dont go by other's works.
> Unless you plan on judging by his own work, at least watch the film first,
> find out where each cue sits in the movie, develop a feel for the score
> through acclimation, and then make your criticism. Reason I say this is
> because this review seems to be more about Remote Control hate and
> Poledouris worship than Tyler Bates and his craft. Meanwhile you have a
> film that was tossed into the August release month for a reason - because
> nobody really gives a crap about the film.

> And to call the guy is plaigarist is ass-inine. Really. Look at James
> Horner who plaigerises his OWN damn work and gives you the same score for
> every film he does. This plaigerist rant is irrelevent.

> I think the reviewer would probably fare better reviewing scores he likes
> rather than the ones he doesnt like, because all the reviews so far are
> total negativity. Plus Im sure theres scores out there he might appreciate
> more...

Three fallacies in your logic will cause you to be ridiculed at this site.

1. Reviewers have to write about works they like and dislike. Otherwise, there is no point to the task. Clemmensen is at or near the top of the "A-list" of film music reviewers. His knowledge about film music is immense.

2. Poledouris' average fan rating (those rating booths on each review) is about 3.35. Bates' average fan rating is about 1.89. You're free to think that their quality is equal, but you are in a very small minority.

3. Read the review of 300 at Filmtracks and you will learn that Bates is the most famous plagiarist in recent film music history. The studio was forced to acknowledge the plagiarism to avoid a lawsuit from Elliot Goldenthal.



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SolarisLem
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Re: Fundamental errors of judgement   Wednesday, August 10, 2011 (7:45 p.m.) 

> 2. Poledouris' average fan rating (those rating booths on each review) is
> about 3.35. Bates' average fan rating is about 1.89. You're free to think
> that their quality is equal, but you are in a very small minority.

There are still people who think the earth is flat. Let Pablo believe whatever he wants and we'll have a nice chuckle.



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Soundhawk
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Pablo
Re: Fundamental errors of judgement   Saturday, August 13, 2011 (10:16 a.m.) 

> Three fallacies in your logic will cause you to be ridiculed at this site.

he does not care about logic, he is simply Bates fanboy with bad history info



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Pablo
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Re: Fundamental errors of judgement   Saturday, August 13, 2011 (12:28 p.m.) 

> he does not care about logic, he is simply Bates fanboy with bad history
> info

Check this out:

Bates and his style, Zimmer and his style, etc. are the future.

Like Poledouris all you want, he was a good composer, but he's dead and gone, and so are those stylings. Does it suck? Yeah...But what can you do? The public demands Remote Control type scores...

So stop hatin gon me just because I hapen to prefer Bates work over Poledouris. I dont hate Poledouris, I just dont consider his music valid anymore...It served its purpose back then and now its time for a new era to begin.

Keep hating if you want, but hate yourselves not me,


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