SUPPORT FILMTRACKS! CLICK HERE FIRST:
Amazon.com
Amazon.co.uk
iTunes (U.S.)
Amazon.ca
Amazon.fr
eBay (U.S.)
Amazon.de
Amazon.es
Half.com
Glisten Effect
Editorial Reviews
Scoreboard Forum
Viewer Ratings
Composers
Awards
   NEWEST MAJOR REVIEWS:
     1. Venom
    2. House With a Clock/Walls
   3. The Nun
  4. Crazy Rich Asians
 5. The Meg
6. Christopher Robin
   CURRENT MOST POPULAR REVIEWS:
         1. Edward Scissorhands
        2. Jurassic World: Kingdom
       3. Batman
      4. The Predator
     5. Gladiator
    6. Mission: Impossible - Fallout
   7. Solo: A Star Wars Story
  8. Apollo 13
 9. Ant-Man and the Wasp
10. The Equalizer 2
Home Page
Menu Options ▼
Comments about the soundtrack for The Dark Knight Rises (Hans Zimmer/Various)
Meh

cs^tbl
(ip565e584e.direct-adsl.nl)


  Responses to this Comment:
Flo
Meh   Monday, July 16, 2012 (9:02 a.m.) 

Mind if I cut in?

So, I quickly sniffed through this one. Based on the review I was expecting everything that's considered wrong, ranging from MRI scans to blown up speakers.

So, after a quick listening snack: well, it's quite anonymous music really. You could edit any recent action flick with this music. So from that point of view, musically, there's nothing we haven't heard already. There's also nothing I'd consider interesting on album. Perhaps it works wonders for the movie, can't tell. But alas.. this is an album review website, so it's only fair to judge the stand alone listening experience.
It's all quite monotone, you're listening to 51 minutes worth of identical sounds, pitches and beats. But, within that what it is, technically it's produced well. It's not like it sounds crappy or anything. It's layered with tons o' things, and such requires good mixing. The problem is the content, or lack of it, and how to judge all that.

Imagine pudding for desert, what you put on it? Whipped cream, no doubt! This album is whipped cream, from start to finish. Nothing else, no pudding, no custard, no strawberry sauce, no chocolate, no nothing. No substance whatsoever, just whipped cream. Wherever you look: whipped cream. And I'm afraid the Zimmer machine has been making whipped cream for many years by now, how much more whipped cream can we expect before the -tasty- substance returns? The Zimmer-fanboys certainly like whipped cream, I guess. But don't they like something else, for a bloody change?

So, yea, this review o' CC is barely surprising. What does surprise me, however, is what's written in that most left column; the credits.

Had one n00b made this album the way it is.. fine. You can't win 'm all. I'm sure you'll find a number of students at music colleges, being able to do an album like this - after all it's not that difficult.

Now TDKR: shall we count along then?
* Six additional composers/arrangers
* Ten(!) orchestrators
* One ambient designer
* And some additional producers, of which I don't know whether they're music producers or more like process managers.

Either way (I'll ignore listing the conductors here), I count at least a whopping seventeen assistants for uncle Hans. For what? FOR WHAT? For *THIS*? How is it even possible to work with this many people on this kind of minimal music? Imagine yourself on a bike with someone else.. can you imagine saying: "I'll push the left pedal, you'll push the right pedal, hmkay?" I guess not.. (then again, I'm European, what do I know ) I don't hear anything for which you need this many assistants, UNLESS each involved person is simply not competent. Might this last situation be true, for heaven's sake: WHY? What happened with the era in which one (1) composer would compose, orchestrate and even conduct his own scores? And - and that's the contradiction - then end up with something far more entertaining than this "painting with one color".

Boy do I long back to the early years in the 90's..

"Nothing Out There" .. yea .. well, "Nothing in here" either.. ^_^


Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Flo
(p57bd69c0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
Profile Picture
  In Response to:
cs^tbl

  Responses to this Comment:
GK
always use one orchestrator per ostinato   Tuesday, July 17, 2012 (12:52 p.m.) 

Some good points in this one - and the whipped cream part was amazing .

I honestly don't understand why these type of scores need that huge amount of assistants either - maybe one orchestrator for every ostinato?. I remember, that back in the 90s Zimmer used to work with far less people and the results were much more entertaining and - well - diverse. Even if his constructs are not the greatest, there was a certain quality to his music.
Also, what for does he need these huge orchestras? Usually at least two tubas, ten horns and eight trombones (!). Howard Shore created this immensely huge sound of the Lord of the Rings trilogy with a much much smaller brass section.


Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


GK
(ip-109-84-62-46.web.vodafone.de)
Profile Picture
  In Response to:
Flo

  Responses to this Comment:
Flo
Re: always use one orchestrator per ostinato   Wednesday, July 18, 2012 (2:03 a.m.) 

> Some good points in this one - and the whipped cream part was amazing .

> I honestly don't understand why these type of scores need that huge amount
> of assistants either - maybe one orchestrator for every ostinato?. I
> remember, that back in the 90s Zimmer used to work with far less people
> and the results were much more entertaining and - well - diverse. Even if
> his constructs are not the greatest, there was a certain quality to his
> music.
> Also, what for does he need these huge orchestras? Usually at least two
> tubas, ten horns and eight trombones (!). Howard Shore created this
> immensely huge sound of the Lord of the Rings trilogy with a much much
> smaller brass section.

Shore is a skilful composer and orchestrator, Hans Zimmer is not.

He needs the huge orchestra to have his music make any sort of impact.


Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Flo
(p57bd6ae3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
Profile Picture
  In Response to:
GK

  Responses to this Comment:
cs^tbl
Re: always use one orchestrator per ostinato   Wednesday, July 18, 2012 (2:51 a.m.) 

> Shore is a skilful composer and orchestrator, Hans Zimmer is not.

Indeed he is, no doubt about that!
I just wonder, if Hans Zimmer has 10 orchestrators, why can't they do something more interesting? What else would you need these ten people for? Just so weird.

> He needs the huge orchestra to have his music make any sort of impact.

And then his brass sounds like a syntheszier. So I see no reason of using that huge amount of tubas, horns and trombones ...



Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


cs^tbl
(ip565e584e.direct-adsl.nl)

  In Response to:
Flo

  Responses to this Comment:
Flo
Re: always use one orchestrator per ostinato   Wednesday, July 18, 2012 (3:57 a.m.) 

> And then his brass sounds like a syntheszier. So I see no reason of using
> that huge amount of tubas, horns and trombones ...

Elliot Goldenthal used 16 horns and 8 trombones on Final Fantasy.. But yeah, E.G., with all his incidental Avant-garde quirks, demands far more orchestration respect from me than uncle Hans does.

Either way, with - say - 4 horns you can choose to create one "fat" tutti note *or* a chord with solo horns. Whether you think these solo horns sound fat or thin is an arbitrary discussion, but at least there is a tonal difference. Utilizing more horns means you can create chords with these "fat" tutti constructions. This may be the sole reason for uncle Hans to pick oodles o' brass players.

So, where is the difference with other composers? First, as a listener you may perceive 4 horns creating a chord not as thin, so you won't hear any issue when 'only' 4 horns are used - even if there *is* a tonal difference. Even better; tutti horns playing pianissimo sound more anonymous than solo fortissimo horns, and well whatdayaknow, 'anonymous' was just the term I found for TDKR!

Secondly, a composer may choose to use tutti sections of horns, trumpets and trombones to form chords.

Thirdly, other composers may choose to add specific woodwinds to beef up solo brass instruments, I'd think of bassoons and clarinets. I'm not quite convinced the RemoteControl-formula uses those (or any other) woodwinds often.

Either way, what strikes me as odd is that this RC brass sound isn't even that complex, it's more like having an acoustic synthesizer, played as a synthesizer. And then I think: 'ok, why bother hiring brass instruments in the first place?' Go with samples or decent synths..


Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Flo
(ad96ec7ca.dsl.de.colt.net)
Profile Picture
  In Response to:
cs^tbl
Re: always use one orchestrator per ostinato   Wednesday, July 18, 2012 (4:27 a.m.) 

> Elliot Goldenthal used 16 horns and 8 trombones on Final Fantasy.. But
> yeah, E.G., with all his incidental Avant-garde quirks, demands far more
> orchestration respect from me than uncle Hans does.

Yeah, Final Fantasy was a total brass overkill. But the music was awesome! Elliot Goldenthal has a very distinct style and I like it a lot, going way back to his Pet Sematary soundtrack (it's a little disjointed tho).

> Either way, with - say - 4 horns you can choose to create one
> "fat" tutti note *or* a chord with solo horns. Whether you think
> these solo horns sound fat or thin is an arbitrary discussion, but at
> least there is a tonal difference. Utilizing more horns means you can
> create chords with these "fat" tutti constructions. This may be
> the sole reason for uncle Hans to pick oodles o' brass players.

Yes, i understand, but still, he could double them in the recording process, since he's gonna tweak on the recording till the sound like synth anyhow. On the other hand it's nice of him to give money to a large number of musicians .

> So, where is the difference with other composers? First, as a listener you
> may perceive 4 horns creating a chord not as thin, so you won't hear any
> issue when 'only' 4 horns are used - even if there *is* a tonal
> difference. Even better; tutti horns playing pianissimo sound more
> anonymous than solo fortissimo horns, and well whatdayaknow, 'anonymous'
> was just the term I found for TDKR!

Anonymous is the term I was looking for. I have that feeling with a lot of RC scores lately. There are some nice ideas here and there, but they are never developed differently. Reading reviews over at amazon I have the feeling people are having trouble noticing a theme when it is orchestrated or played differently. So for instance the Transformers theme has always to be played in the same key with the exact same instrumentation as otherwise people would have trouble hearing it. As ridiculous as that may sound ...

> Secondly, a composer may choose to use tutti sections of horns, trumpets
> and trombones to form chords.

> Thirdly, other composers may choose to add specific woodwinds to beef up
> solo brass instruments, I'd think of bassoons and clarinets. I'm not quite
> convinced the RemoteControl-formula uses those (or any other) woodwinds
> often.

Again, thanks for elaborating on that. I know a bit of orchestrating myself and when to add this or that, but it's far from academic knowledge unfortunately. Some RC scores would definately benefit from having woodwinds. Also with their obsession of the lower registers, I wonder why they are not using contra bassoons and contra bass clarinets, since these are some of the lowest instruments in an orchestra, plus they can have a very eerie and haunting sound. Zimmer used a contra bassoon in Sherlock Holmes 2 and it worked pretty well... But then nowadays a lot of people think he reinvented the wheel by being so genius as to "bring back" woodwinds into modern scoring .... Case closed.

> Either way, what strikes me as odd is that this RC brass sound isn't even
> that complex, it's more like having an acoustic synthesizer, played as
> a synthesizer
. And then I think: 'ok, why bother hiring brass
> instruments in the first place?' Go with samples or decent synths..

Exactly my thought! Exactly!!!!



Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display



Copyright © 1998-2018, Filmtracks Publications. All rights reserved.
The reviews and other textual content contained on the filmtracks.com site may not be published, broadcast,
rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of Christian Clemmensen at Filmtracks Publications. Scoreboard created 7/24/98 and last updated 4/25/15.