SUPPORT FILMTRACKS! CLICK HERE FIRST:
Amazon.com
Amazon.co.uk
iTunes (U.S.)
Amazon.ca
Amazon.fr
eBay (U.S.)
Amazon.de
Amazon.es
Half.com
Glisten Effect
Editorial Reviews
Scoreboard Forum
Viewer Ratings
Composers
Awards
   NEWEST MAJOR REVIEWS:
     1. Incredibles 2
    2. Solo: A Star Wars Story
   3. Deadpool 2
  4. Avengers: Infinity War
 5. A Quiet Place
6. Ready Player One
   CURRENT MOST POPULAR REVIEWS:
         1. Star Wars: The Last Jedi
        2. Gladiator
       3. Blade Runner 2049
      4. Batman
     5. Thor: Ragnarok
    6. The Avengers
   7. Spider-Man: Homecoming
  8. Avatar
 9. Dunkirk
10. Phantom Thread
Home Page
Menu Options ▼
Comments about the soundtrack for Enemy at the Gates (James Horner)
LOL!!

Chris Tilton
<Send E-Mail>
(1cust222.tnt13.phl1.da.uu.net)
Profile Picture

  Responses to this Comment:
Andy
P.J, Naiztat
LOL!!   Monday, February 19, 2001 (8:43 a.m.) 

HAHA. I couldn't help but burst out laughing when I heard that first clip Mr. Clemmensen provides. It sounds like a battle theme from a Final Fantasy game rather than a WWII drama. And the Chorus!! Hysterical. They're all saying "HA" on every note. Are they laughing at something? Even Hans Zimmer will occasionally give his cliche "Russian" chorus actual words to sing. Then, all of a sudden Schindler's List makes an appearance! Not only did he rip off the theme, but he has the Mandolin playing, just like Schindler's List. Some people say that theme is from Mahler's 8th Symphony, but it's only 5 notes, isn't even a theme, is only vaguely similar and only plays 3 or 4 times in the hour long symphony. It's like saying every theme that has a rising perfect forth is a rip off of the Force theme (or any other piece previous). Enough of that, Horner has sunk to an all new low with this score. Maybe the bad guy from Willow will show up, or from Zorro, since se uses that same little cheesy "bad guy" motif, only this time it's hilarious. What am I saying? Horner conjures up a good unintentional laugh. Well, as his chorus says, "HA! HA! HA! HA!"

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Andy
<Send E-Mail>
(gateway.framfab.se)

  In Response to:
Chris Tilton

  Responses to this Comment:
Chris Tilton
Re: LOL!!   Wednesday, February 21, 2001 (2:29 a.m.) 

> Not only did he rip off the theme,
> but he has the Mandolin playing, just like Schindler's List.

Uh? Can't you tell the difference between a Balalaika (it't not a mandolin) and a violin?


Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Chris Tilton
<Send E-Mail>
(1cust125.tnt6.phl1.da.uu.net)
Profile Picture
  In Response to:
Andy

  Responses to this Comment:
Christian Afonso
Matt Price
Jim Harris
Re: LOL!!   Wednesday, February 21, 2001 (6:09 a.m.) 

> Uh? Can't you tell the difference between a Balalaika (it't not a
> mandolin) and a violin?

I thought I remember the mandolin playing in the background on one of the tracks in Schindler's List. I was apparently mistaken. What I wasn't mistaken about is Horner's shameless rip-off. Why are you so content on defending such a crappy composer who does nothing but hack themes from other composers. It figures Horner would use the Balalaika, as you have corrected me, which is from the Russian guitar family, as he makes it sound Italian. Well, he's an idiot, what can I say?

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Christian Afonso
(pd9003cc4.dip.t-dialin.net)

  In Response to:
Chris Tilton
Re: LOL!!   Thursday, February 22, 2001 (2:23 p.m.) 

> I thought I remember the mandolin playing in the background on one of the
> tracks in Schindler's List.
(...)

Actually it is a guitar (Just to have it correct here ). I think it is the track "Give me your Names"

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Matt Price
<Send E-Mail>
(spider-te044.proxy.aol.com)

  In Response to:
Chris Tilton

  Responses to this Comment:
Chris Tilton
Re: LOL!!   Friday, March 16, 2001 (5:47 p.m.) 

> I thought I remember the mandolin playing in the background on one of the
> tracks in Schindler's List. I was apparently mistaken. What I wasn't
> mistaken about is Horner's shameless rip-off. Why are you so content on
> defending such a crappy composer who does nothing but hack themes from
> other composers. It figures Horner would use the Balalaika, as you have
> corrected me, which is from the Russian guitar family, as he makes it
> sound Italian. Well, he's an idiot, what can I say?

You write a better score then, if he's so bad.



Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Chris Tilton
<Send E-Mail>
(ac9ba58d.ipt.aol.com)
Profile Picture
  In Response to:
Matt Price

  Responses to this Comment:
Matt Price
Re: LOL!!   Friday, March 16, 2001 (6:44 p.m.) 

> You write a better score then, if he's so bad.

I most certainly can and have written better music. I'd bet you all the money in the world I could write a better score to Enemy at the Gates. Better, being defined as less mundane and inept as Horner's music.


Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Matt Price
<Send E-Mail>
(spider-tm061.proxy.aol.com)

  In Response to:
Chris Tilton

  Responses to this Comment:
Chris Tilton
Re: LOL!!   Saturday, March 31, 2001 (4:53 p.m.) 

> I most certainly can and have written better music. I'd bet you all the
> money in the world I could write a better score to Enemy at the Gates.
> Better, being defined as less mundane and inept as Horner's music.

To be honest, I went to your website and listened to your music. It is not very good. Horner is leaps and bounds above anything I heard from you. Don't critize someone unless you can truly do better. Your music is better than the score to "Blair Witch 2", I'll give you that, but little else.


Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Chris Tilton
<Send E-Mail>
(1cust67.tnt1.philadelphia2.pa.da.
uu.net)
Profile Picture
  In Response to:
Matt Price
Re: LOL!!   Saturday, March 31, 2001 (7:31 p.m.) 

> To be honest, I went to your website and listened to your music. It is not
> very good. Horner is leaps and bounds above anything I heard from you.
> Don't critize someone unless you can truly do better.

That's fine if you think Horner is much better at composing than I am, but in order for me, or anyone, to take you seriously is to explain why you think my music sucks and Horner's is good. I'd be interested in what you have to say.

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Jim Harris
(213.97.113.71)

  In Response to:
Chris Tilton

  Responses to this Comment:
Chris Tilton
Re: LOL!!   Wednesday, March 21, 2001 (5:27 p.m.) 

> Well, he's an idiot, what can I say?

Well, to start with you should give contundent reasons instead of insulting like a little furious kid, after being humiliated for your blatant lack of knowledge about music (not talking about film music and composers, obviously you've no idea about these subjects). When a composer makes a bad score does not mean he's an idiot (though I don't think it's really a bad score, it's true it has little originality, and the Schindler's List rip-off has been an absolute mistake); he's even cleverer than you could think, because he doesn't spend much time inventing a new theme (why, if he's payed the same?), and he actually doesn't worry about what people say in this forums, so he does the job whith minimal dedication, only recycles previous material which seems to please the director: everybody happy, except us, of course, those who don't participate in the business and hope a big effort from a GOOD composer, because undoubtedly he is. Do you know anything about his career? Did you know that he won an Academy Award for his world wide recognized effort for scoring "Titanic"? Have you ever listend to the score of "Glory"? You should, at least have heard about it: it's been used in many trailers, and there are REAL lyrics in his chorus (as you affirm Hans Zimmer uses, I supose you're talking about "Crimson Tide"); if you ask well-informed people, they'll tell you it's a classic masterpiece of the genre. So shut up your mouth and let the adults debate about this.

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Chris Tilton
<Send E-Mail>
(1cust80.tnt1.philadelphia2.pa.da.
uu.net)
Profile Picture
  In Response to:
Jim Harris

  Responses to this Comment:
Jim Harris
Re: LOL!!   Wednesday, March 21, 2001 (6:36 p.m.) 

>after being humiliated for your blatant lack of knowledge about music

Actually I'll be graduating from college with a bachelor of music in composition. I'm 21 and I've been studying and listening to music for over half my life, classical music and film scores alike. Now that that's out of the way...

>When a composer makes a bad score does not mean he's an idiot

You're absolutely right, James Horner is not an idiot. I was just pissed off at the time for his blatant borrowing of material, which he does so often. I'm sure he's laughing all the way to the bank, but I still think he's a horrible composer.

>he's even cleverer >that would be "more clever" he doesn't spend much time inventing a new theme (why, if he's payed the same

That's true, but because of that I have absolutely no respect for him as a composer, and I'm sure many others feel the same way. He certainly has every right to sell out and get rid of his dignity.

>Do you know anything about his career? Did you know that he won an Academy >Award for his world wide recognized effort for scoring "Titanic"?

Of course I know that, but as we all know, you don't have to be "good" to win an academy award. You only have to be well marketed. That's certainly doesn't mean that everyone that get's an award doesn't deserve it, some certainly do. Generally though, it's because the film or person up for the award was marketed to the academy really well.

>Have you ever listend to the score of "Glory"?

Yes I have, the first part of the main theme is stolen, note for note, from Prokofiev's "Ivan the Terrible."

>if you ask well-informed people, they'll tell you it's a
>classic masterpiece of the genre.

What well-informed people would these be? Certainly anyone that knows anything about classical music will tell you that it's nothing but borrowings from other people, especially the obvious "O Fortuna" rip off during the final battle. That's of course in addition to all the themes he's stolen from Prokofiev. Yes, he steals an aweful lot from him. I wouldn't mind if he used his styles, but he takes Prokofiev's melodies and claims them as his own. That, in my opinion, is just wrong.

>So shut up your mouth and let the adults debate about this.

Oh, how adult of you to say. I'll be awaiting your "cleverer" response.


Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Jim Harris
(213.97.113.71)

  In Response to:
Chris Tilton

  Responses to this Comment:
Chris Tilton
Re: LOL!!   Thursday, March 22, 2001 (1:37 p.m.) 

I'm very pleased yo've responded so quickly, and first of all I must apologize for my grammar mistake (hey, this time I've been the humiliated one, he, he...). I've also seen that you feel huge hatred for this composer, which certainly borrows too much material from his own compositions, and even sometimes 'steals' from other composers (of course he's not the only one who does, but he's the most clear example because of the amount of times he does). However I think he's fully capable of making outstanding original themes, and in my opinion he has got a clear vision regarding the emotions that the film and its characters suggest, creating motifs to make the spectator understand their behaviors and feelings, and the particular mood of the scenes (Krull, Aliens, Willow, Field of Dreams, Legends of the Fall, Apollo 13, Titanic...). Unfortunately, he always includes recycled material that sounds very familiar, I think to define his style, and detract it the same way, so controversy is always fed as soon as he scores a new film. Once my point of view is clear, I must say you're absolutely right when you say that Oscars are given specially according to sales and commercial expectations, and obviously Titanic was a big success, both the film and the soundtrack (this last one sold an incredible amount of copies; of course, I know the song had much to do with this fact). But James Horner hasn't only won an Oscar, he's been nominated SEVERAL times... even twice in the same year (1995)!! In addition he's also been nominated for the Grammies and the Golden Globes, and has won three (for Braveheart and Titanic again, this one for score and song). Do you still think he's so bad? Coincidences? I don't think so. But I don't want to inflict my opinion; mine is my opinion; mine is as valid as yours.
Talking about Glory, the track named "Charging Fort Wagner", the one you refer to, is an adaptation of style and tempo from Carl Orff's "O Fortuna", and obviously both share certain similarities, specially at the beginning and ending of Horner's track, as you've noticed, but no more than that. Horner's motifs and the notes' disposition have nothing to do with those from Orff. And about the stolen first part of the theme, I'm not familiar with Plokofiev, so I'll try to find out which part of his work for "Ivan the Terrible" is the one we are refering to. Anyway, thanks for your information. I see you're well-informed, and what I think it's more important, you can be reasonable without falling in roughness.

Sorry for the vast explanations, I only wanted to show my opinions clearly. Thanks for reading.

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Chris Tilton
<Send E-Mail>
(1cust177.tnt1.philadelphia2.pa.da
.uu.net)
Profile Picture
  In Response to:
Jim Harris
Re: LOL!!   Thursday, March 22, 2001 (2:00 p.m.) 

Actually, I enjoy a lot of Horner's pre-90s work like Star Trek II and Krull. His style has changed to pop music mentality over past few years and I just wonder, what the hell happened. Braveheart and Apollo 13 were nominated in 1995, but both of those films were immensely popular and recieved best picture nominations. I just find a lot of his themes (when they are original) too typical as most of the time I can sing where it's going to go before the music itself even tells me. I find it incredibly boring to not be surprised, or to hear an extremely cliched idea, which is often in Horner. I don't "hate" Horner per say, that's a strong word, I just hate primarily, his stealing of melodies from other people and not properly crediting them. Sometimes I don't mind when people take melodies and use them, but whenever he does he usually has no rhyme or reason to do so. For instance, Williams dilliberate allusion to Holst's Mars: The Bringer of War in the opening of Star Wars.

To find the melody that Horner uses from Prokofiev's Ivan the Terrible, it's about 2 minutes into a section called "Forward to Kazan" and also at the end of the section entitled "The Tartar Steppes." I could always make a small mp3 clip and upload it to my website if you're interested in hearing it

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


P.J, Naiztat
<Send E-Mail>
(63.168.241.98)

  In Response to:
Chris Tilton
Chris Tilton thinks he is a better composer.   Thursday, March 10, 2005 (2:11 p.m.) 

He is wrong.

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display



Copyright © 1998-2018, Filmtracks Publications. All rights reserved.
The reviews and other textual content contained on the filmtracks.com site may not be published, broadcast,
rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of Christian Clemmensen at Filmtracks Publications. Scoreboard created 7/24/98 and last updated 4/25/15.