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Comments about the soundtrack for Enemy at the Gates (James Horner)
Williams Ripoff

BWright
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(dialin-147-145.tor.primus.ca)


  Responses to this Comment:
Stefan S.
Andrew Abrahamson
Nick Arnstein
Williams Ripoff   Monday, February 19, 2001 (7:42 a.m.) 

I wished that Mr. Clemmensen had mentioned in his review that the final track in the ENEMY AT THE GATES soundtrack is a direct "lifting" of John Williams' award winning title theme from SCHINDLER'S LIST. For those who are curious...go to sony classical's website and download the clip (www.sonyclassical/music/89522/).
Mr. Horner has sunk to new lows! What are your thoughts?

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Stefan S.
(chello212186060154.12.vie.surfer.
at)

  In Response to:
BWright
Re: Williams Ripoff   Monday, February 19, 2001 (8:13 a.m.) 

> I wished that Mr. Clemmensen had mentioned in his review that the final
> track in the ENEMY AT THE GATES soundtrack is a direct "lifting"
> of John Williams' award winning title theme from SCHINDLER'S LIST. For
> those who are curious...go to sony classical's website and download the
> clip (www.sonyclassical/music/89522/).
Mr. Horner has sunk to new
> lows! What are your thoughts?

Well, the "award winning title theme" from Schindler's List was actually taken from Gustav Mahlers Symphony Nr.8, Williams just extended the theme slightly. So Horner is not the first one to "lift" this theme.

Stefan S.


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Andrew Abrahamson
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(1cust189.tnt5.everett.wa.da.uu.ne
t)

  In Response to:
BWright
Re: Williams Ripoff   Monday, February 19, 2001 (12:24 p.m.) 

> I wished that Mr. Clemmensen had mentioned in his review that the final
> track in the ENEMY AT THE GATES soundtrack is a direct "lifting"
> of John Williams' award winning title theme from SCHINDLER'S LIST. For
> those who are curious...go to sony classical's website and download the
> clip (www.sonyclassical/music/89522/).
Mr. Horner has sunk to new
> lows! What are your thoughts?

Now obviously I havent heard the entire score yet, just the sound clips and those #####awful recordings from the German release, but you guys are going out of control with your Horner bashings. Granted he HAS most certainly pulled some of his old work for this film, but are we really that surprised. Lord he's been doing this now for years. And from the sounds of it there is still some quality cues underneith all that, plus it will make a solid complement to the film, I dont think this score is as nearly as bad as you are all trying to make it seem. But only time will tell. Still cant wait to get it. 3 cheers for Horner.


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Nick Arnstein
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(ssmarie-ppp129010.sympatico.ca)

  In Response to:
BWright

  Responses to this Comment:
Jon Williams
Rameaka
Williams Rip-Off, but Apollo 13 too!!   Saturday, April 7, 2001 (8:27 p.m.) 

As a fan of James Horner, I was somewhat disappointed that he not only 'borrowed'(Stravinski said that good composers never borrow, they steal) from himself, but also from another composer in his most recent effort. This, however was not the first time he used this theme. It was a recurring motif back Apollo 13! (Dust off your old scores!!!). Then, it was still only a year after Williams scored Schindler's List, and no characters were Jewish. This score is somewhat disappointing, but the lush orchestrations, as always, make up for all this borrowing. It is, however, beginning to get a little tired.

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Jon Williams
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(h-209-202-44-233.fast.escape.ca)

  In Response to:
Nick Arnstein

  Responses to this Comment:
EnglishNed
Re: Williams Rip-Off, but Apollo 13 too!   Thursday, April 19, 2001 (8:11 p.m.) 

....i'd just like to point out that horner's theme didn't come from Schindler's list, or apollo 13...but in fact Balto (yes a horner score but who cares!). Track 10 at 1:28 into the track you hear EATG, NOT schindler's list!

> As a fan of James Horner, I was somewhat disappointed that he not only
> 'borrowed'(Stravinski said that good composers never borrow, they steal)
> from himself, but also from another composer in his most recent effort.
> This, however was not the first time he used this theme. It was a
> recurring motif back Apollo 13! (Dust off your old scores!!!). Then, it
> was still only a year after Williams scored Schindler's List, and no
> characters were Jewish. This score is somewhat disappointing, but the lush
> orchestrations, as always, make up for all this borrowing. It is, however,
> beginning to get a little tired.


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EnglishNed
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(ct243331-a.lxintn1.ky.home.com)

  In Response to:
Jon Williams
Re: Williams Rip-Off, but Apollo 13 too!   Thursday, May 31, 2001 (10:56 p.m.) 

> ....i'd just like to point out that horner's theme didn't come from
> Schindler's list, or apollo 13...but in fact Balto (yes a horner score but
> who cares!). Track 10 at 1:28 into the track you hear EATG, NOT
> schindler's list!

...AND, may I point out, that Horner has tried to reinvent his music. Please recall Vibes, even though it was ambient sound and, overall, a flop, this was a genuine departure for Horner's scoring career. He knows what works, and keeps to that. And the majority of audiences and directors seem to continue to eat it up. I agree it gets dull (though I take pleasure in seeing Honer-scored films and trying to pick out the various other soundtracks lifted), but it works, and it sells. And that, tragically, is what this business is about these days.

-EnglishNed

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Rameaka
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(204.60.171.225)

  In Response to:
Nick Arnstein
Re: Williams Rip-Off, but Apollo 13 too!   Tuesday, April 24, 2001 (10:05 a.m.) 

It is, however,
> beginning to get a little tired.

I totally agree, how long can Horner keep up this cherade, eventually he'll just run out of themes to write and no one will like him anymore. Don't get me wrong, I think Horner is a great composer, he just needs to stop borrowing from himself. Some of his earlier works were great especially Apollo 13, Braveheart, and Willow. I think that if Horner wants to hold his currrent audiance he needs to reinvent himself and his music.



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