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Comments about the soundtrack for Ghosts of Mars (John Carpenter)
We don't have April right now, do we?

Matthias N.
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  Responses to this Comment:
Christian Clemmensen
We don't have April right now, do we?   Wednesday, October 29, 2003 (8:43 a.m.) 

This review could make a nice April Fool, but we have October right now. So this is serious. A poor score, consisting of uninspired, poor, moldy electronic sounds gets four(!?!?!?!?) stars while Goldsmiths "Final Conflict" gets one ????. I don't believe it. Am I dreamin'?

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Christian Clemmensen
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  In Response to:
Matthias N.

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Defrère "HZF" Jérémy
Yo dude! I didn't write the above review.   Wednesday, October 29, 2003 (6:33 p.m.) 

> This review could make a nice April Fool, but we have October right now.
> So this is serious. A poor score, consisting of uninspired, poor, moldy
> electronic sounds gets four(!?!?!?!?) stars while Goldsmiths "Final
> Conflict" gets one ????. I don't believe it. Am I dreamin'?

The Ghosts of Mars review was donated from a reader of the site. I'm the editor, and if I had my say on the matter, I would have given Ghosts of Mars a big, fat, single star.

Christian



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Defrère "HZF" Jérémy
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  In Response to:
Christian Clemmensen

  Responses to this Comment:
Matthias N.
Life is all about prejudices.   Saturday, November 1, 2003 (4:12 a.m.) 

What do you both have against Carpenter's "Ghosts of Mars" ? Just because it is not your average orchestral score, it means it is crap? Had it been up to me, this score would have gotten a 5 star rating. By the way, great review James ! At last, someone has made quite a relevant point and written a fair and "non-biaised" review of this score, which is for me one of the best achievements by the composer/director.

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Matthias N.
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Defrère "HZF" Jérémy

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HZF
Re: Life is all about prejudices.   Tuesday, November 4, 2003 (6:53 a.m.) 

If you want a good 'martian' score with a lot of clever synthesizer phrases and rythmical comlexity check out Goldsmith's "Total Recall". Compared with that "Ghosts of Mars" is just flat, uninspired rock standard and has less to do with filmmusic.

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HZF
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Matthias N.

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Chris
Matthias N.
Re: Life is all about prejudices.   Tuesday, November 4, 2003 (9:33 a.m.) 

> If you want a good 'martian' score with a lot of clever synthesizer
> phrases and rythmical comlexity check out Goldsmith's "Total
> Recall". Compared with that "Ghosts of Mars" is just flat, uninspired rock
> standard and has less to do with filmmusic.

Sure, "Ghosts of Mars" is just crap. Why? Because it is rock music? Because it is not performed by your "usual" orchestra? Because it is beyond your capability of understanding? Because you are not used to hearing such a good and unique score? Because you are so proud and ego-driven as to not admit what you say is biaised? Because your father is Santa Claus? Because your brother dyed his hair blue? Because it is raining in England? ... *IRONY* (Sigh).

Let us now analyse your last statement "and has less to do with film music"... Of course, I had forgotten, sure you are yet another of those guys who think that film music has to be fully orchestral in order to be good, forgetting that film music is a gigantic mix of ALL GENRES and not just what you think it is. Goodness, people tend to be so idiotic nowadays...

Obviously, you do not seem to be fond of rock music, either, thus not knowing e about that kind of music. However, "with your infinite knowledge of rock music", you are pretentious enough as to try and tell us what a "rock standard" is supposed to sound like. OK, go on please, explain your position with more precision and share your precious opinions with us, morons, so we can finally know what we should listen to. Come on, we are all ears. And, while you are at it, give me your examples of good and bad rock music, so we can compare, together, hand in hand. Sure an educated man as you are have plenty of things to teach us -- even though, let me remind you that lousy detail of mine, I have been listening to rock music (metal/goth/heavy/grunge/...) for more than 15 years. In the meantime, please if you do not mind, I will go on listening to this 5 star score, which is "Ghosts of Mars".

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Chris
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HZF

  Responses to this Comment:
HZF
Re: Life is all about prejudices.   Tuesday, November 4, 2003 (1:40 p.m.) 

I dont think the problem is because it is rock music. The problem is this music doesnt fit with the film. Rock music doesnt seem to work for a horror film. Just like with Resident Evil.

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HZF
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Chris

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Chris
Re: Life is all about prejudices.   Wednesday, November 5, 2003 (6:23 a.m.) 

> I dont think the problem is because it is rock music. The problem is this
> music doesnt fit with the film. Rock music doesnt seem to work for a
> horror film. Just like with Resident Evil.

How funny, I think it fits the film very well. In actual fact, I would even add that the relation between a horror movie and its music had never that close to perfection before "Ghosts of Mars".

Anyway, all you do is to keep spitting on this soundtrack but you are completely unable to find valuable reasons to justify your partial opinions. But please... go on posting your "mean" comments about GoM, I would not by any means want to deprive you of your right, plus, reading those is definitely so much fun for me.

HZF

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Chris
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HZF

  Responses to this Comment:
HZF
Re: Life is all about prejudices.   Wednesday, November 5, 2003 (10:22 a.m.) 

My intention was not to be "mean" but just to give out a possible reason why some people did not like this score.
As for me, i have nothing against scores like this. This one just didn't strike me the right way. Rock music just isn't that good for horror films.



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HZF
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Chris

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Chris
Re: Life is all about prejudices.   Wednesday, November 5, 2003 (11:55 a.m.) 

> My intention was not to be "mean" but just to give out a
> possible reason why some people did not like this score.
As for me, i
> have nothing against scores like this. This one just didn't strike me the
> right way. Rock music just isn't that good for horror films.

Okay, whatever, who cares what the other thinks. To each his/her own opinions.

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Chris
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HZF

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HZF
Re: Life is all about prejudices.   Wednesday, November 5, 2003 (12:44 p.m.) 

As for me, i

> Okay, whatever, who cares what the other thinks. To each his/her own
> opinions.

Sounds Good :P

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HZF
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Chris
Re: Life is all about prejudices.   Thursday, November 6, 2003 (8:45 a.m.) 

> Sounds Good :P

Strange, I have not heard anything.

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Matthias N.
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HZF

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HZF
Re: Life is all about prejudices.   Tuesday, November 11, 2003 (7:39 a.m.) 

Ok, just one simple arugument you have(!!) to understand: Orchestral Music can just express everything, rock music's abilities of expression are VERY limited! Therfore: YES, classical music if ALWAYS a good choice. If you tell me, I'm not an expert in rock, i can also tell you, you're no expert in filmmusic, what would explain, why you denie that orchestral music is just better for filmmusic . And "Ghosts of Mars" is no exception..

But anyway. Put away the fact, that it's rock: This score then still lacks complexity, structure or anthing of a concept. You can use rock music very clever (Goldenthal does so, Goldsmith did so, too), even without anything like an orchestra or classical instruments. But Carpenter here does not even show a glimpse of cleverness. This music does not fit any objecvctive criteria, that allows a rating over 1 star, no matter which style it is. You should start to accept, that a rating for a filmmusic CD is no subjective opinion, but also has to follow existing objective rules. Non of these criteria says: "it has to be classical or orchestral". But then still all of these criteria aren't fitted by "Ghosts of Mars". And as i really try to be objective, please do not again take out the club of prejudices. That kills every discussion before it has really begun. Generally those people who fear discussions or try to avoid them take use of it.

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HZF
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Matthias N.
Re: Life is all about prejudices.   Saturday, November 15, 2003 (7:13 a.m.) 

> Ok, just one simple arugument you have(!!) to understand: Orchestral Music
> can just express everything, rock music's abilities of expression are VERY
> limited!

And I would answer you that film music (not only "Orchestral Music", as you said it yourself) can indeed express everything, and rock music is one possibility to express that.

> Therfore: YES, classical music if ALWAYS a good choice. If you
> tell me, I'm not an expert in rock, i can also tell you, you're no expert
> in filmmusic, what would explain, why you denie that orchestral music is
> just better for filmmusic.

True, I am no expert with regard to film music. But so are you, obviously. Because, the instance of "Ghosts of Mars" left aside, to think that film music is always better when orchestral is quite a blatant proof of your ignorance and close-mindedness about the world of film music in general. I noticed over the years that "real" film music lovers (I mean, the ones who think they are hyper intelligent or have refined tastes just because they listen to composers from the Silver Age and Golden Age or whatever) tend to idolize nothing but "orchestral film music", then skipping or despising the richness of all other existing types of music. When are those people going to realize that your musical tastes have absolutely nothing to do with knowledge ??? BIG SARCASM : "Ooh, I listen to Eminem's music, so I must be a foolish jerk after all". However, owning more than 400 original scores (and those include tons of orchestral music ranging from Goldsmith to Steiner, just for you to know) at home, I can therefore be in a position to judge whether a soundtrack is good or not, no matter the instruments used. If it is good, I will listen to it. I bet you see my point.

> And "Ghosts of Mars" is no exception.
> But anyway. Put away the fact, that it's rock: This score then still lacks
> complexity, structure or anthing of a concept. You can use rock music very
> clever (Goldenthal does so, Goldsmith did so, too), even without anything
> like an orchestra or classical instruments. But Carpenter here does not
> even show a glimpse of cleverness. This music does not fit any objecvctive
> criteria, that allows a rating over 1 star, no matter which style it is.
> You should start to accept, that a rating for a filmmusic CD is no
> subjective opinion, but also has to follow existing objective rules. Non
> of these criteria says: "it has to be classical or orchestral".
> But then still all of these criteria aren't fitted by "Ghosts of
> Mars". And as i really try to be objective, please do not again take
> out the club of prejudices. That kills every discussion before it has
> really begun. Generally those people who fear discussions or try to avoid
> them take use of it.

Your opinion on "Ghosts of Mars" soundtrack remains your opinion, so please do not be acting like it is "universally" true, and accept the fact that someone considers it "real" and good film music. Composers (may it be Goldsmith or Goldenthal...) sound like crap whenever they want to compose rock music, because they do not know anything about this genre, whereas it is not the case of Anthrax, a group that has been dealing with rock music for years. Of course, I do know that a rating is always a subjective matter, the ones who say the contrary simply lie to you, as it is impossible not to have your preferences. By the way, let me remind you there has never been a beginning of a possible discussion with you, either. I will even take those two examples of comments of yours to make it clearer :

1) "This review could make a nice April Fool, but we have October right now. So this is serious. A poor score, consisting of uninspired, poor, moldy electronic sounds gets four(!?!?!?!?) stars while Goldsmiths "Final Conflict" gets one ????. I don't believe it. Am I dreamin'?"

2) "If you want a good 'martian' score with a lot of clever synthesizer phrases and rythmical comlexity check out Goldsmith's "Total Recall". Compared with that "Ghosts of Mars" is just flat, uninspired rock standard and has less to do with filmmusic."

ARE THESE COMMENTS OPEN TO DISCUSSION ???

Anyway, to each his/her own opinions, I respect yours.

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