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Comments about the soundtrack for Legends of the Fall (James Horner)
Horner IS a THIEF

Max
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  Responses to this Comment:
Thomas
Observer
Horner IS a THIEF   Thursday, August 21, 2003 (10:57 a.m.) 

Justice should be restored! RED HEAT Main Title by Prokofiev.
There is another example of Horner' s talent to steal the pieces from other composers. While Red Heat isn't among the popular Horner soundtracks, there is a track Main Title which is always impressed me with its use of chorus and unusual harmony.
-- "The opening and closing titles are nothing like I've ever heard Horner score before" -- said in Filmtracks review.

Sure. Its because he didn't write it at all! The whole piece is taken from number II "The Philosophers" from Sergei Prokofiev hidden satiric "Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution". Listen the example on Amazon.com. Horner added some percussion to it and re-arranged it for the movie. But it never mentioned on the film end credits or CD soundtrack. How about copyright, Mr. Horner!!!


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Thomas
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  In Response to:
Max

  Responses to this Comment:
A Movie Fan
Re: Horner IS a THIEF   Thursday, September 25, 2003 (1:14 a.m.) 

> Justice should be restored! RED HEAT Main Title by Prokofiev.
There is
> another example of Horner' s talent to steal the pieces from other
> composers. While Red Heat isn't among the popular Horner soundtracks,
> there is a track Main Title which is always impressed me with its use of
> chorus and unusual harmony.
-- "The opening and closing titles
> are nothing like I've ever heard Horner score before" -- said in
> Filmtracks review.

> Sure. Its because he didn't write it at all! The whole piece is taken from
> number II "The Philosophers" from Sergei Prokofiev hidden
> satiric "Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October
> Revolution". Listen the example on Amazon.com. Horner added some
> percussion to it and re-arranged it for the movie. But it never mentioned
> on the film end credits or CD soundtrack. How about copyright, Mr.
> Horner!!!

Ok, #1, this review is about Legends of the Fall, not Red Heat, and #2, I've seen your posts on this site before, and you sit there and type the same damn thing ever and ever again. That or you just pre typed it, and post in on every damn review. Either way, you need to get past your dumb ass Prokofiev obsession, because sorry, but Prokofiev really isn't all that great. I've really only ever heard 2 or 3 pieces by him that are enjoyable in the least. If you're going to talk about late romantic-modern era classical, go to Dvorak or Stravinsky. Way better. And Horner is DEFINATELY better then any Prokofiev stuff, and I've never heard any evidence of him copying it.


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A Movie Fan
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ali.com)

  In Response to:
Thomas

  Responses to this Comment:
Danny French
Re: Horner IS a THIEF   Thursday, November 13, 2003 (11:35 a.m.) 

Max, why dont you shove this obsession up your arse, you nut. Take a look at yourself....your probably sum low-life, jerkoff...who takes sheep up the pipe-hole.

Read this, and read it again:

GET. A. LIFE.


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Danny French
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  In Response to:
A Movie Fan

  Responses to this Comment:
ghost
Bratpittlover1932
Re: Horner IS a THIEF   Thursday, April 8, 2004 (2:49 p.m.) 

With a fair initial comment, and a remarkable response from Observer, I knew we'd have to go into the childish name calling. Let's try and get this back on track.

I've been fairly Anti-Horner in my time here at Filmtracks, but this score knocked the stuffing right out of me. Yes, the guy regularly pinches material left right and centre. (For those who say he doesn't - please listen to Prokofiev's Alexander Nevsky and Star Trek II side by side. Saying this is not a Prokofiev obsession - it's a simple statement of fact that most of Horner's motifs of the eighties were lifted from the works of Prokofiev, or indeed any number of Russian composers.)

I think, however, there is a limit to how much originality we can sustain bearing in mind the inherent limitations of the symphony orchestra, scale, and tonality (which is still of major importance in 99% of film music for obvious reasons - entirely atonal music is still largely the food of the academics - great for technical analysis but bad for emotional invocation.)

I've a hard time wondering sometimes why a composer is slated when his new piece of music sounds similar to his last. Is music about constantly introducing new gimmicks, pushing back the boundaries of what can be achieved, creating more analysis material, and inventing completely unheard sounds, just to say, "Hey, look what I can do!" ... Or is it about transmitting a feeling, painting a picture, setting a scene, or invoking an emotion? Horner's music is some of the most emotional in film - this score particularly. Who gives a damn if it's written in the same style as his last score? What does it SOUND LIKE?

Who gives a damn if he uses similar chord progressions? It's a unique trademark. I'm a composer myself and I have two motifs and chord progression sequences I have deliberately worked into every piece of music I've written in the last three years. It's my watermark, and it helps bind together my work. I vary it in a different way every time, but if you pick away the dressing, it's the same basic chordal sequence. I'm not ashamed of it - it's quite a deliberate thing. It can add a lot of personality to a piece of music. Example: I composed a love motif for a piece of music some years ago, and now it can turn up in new pieces of music - someone who knows the original piece has an additional insight into the new piece and the usage of that material. They can compare it against its original appearance and they "know something" not everyone knows. Maybe this is a load of bollocks, I don't know... But it's something that means a lot to me, and it seems to mean a lot to the people who listen to my music. [Note: I do not claim to be a great composer, I don't even claim to be good. I let people make up their own minds. I write what I want to write to evoke the feeling I want to evoke - if that meets with approval, then I've suceeded. If it doesn't evoke that feeling or it evokes something else, maybe I've failed.]

So here ends my most Pro-Horner posting of all time!

Love & Peace, folks

Danny

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ghost
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z)

  In Response to:
Danny French
Re: Horner IS a THIEF   Sunday, June 27, 2004 (2:19 a.m.) 

guys, just get over it. this score is and will always be my favourite of all time. stolen or not, it's the best.

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Bratpittlover1932
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  In Response to:
Danny French
Re: Horner IS a THIEF   Sunday, December 30, 2007 (11:27 a.m.) 

Really, who cares? I have heard of Horner and I have not heard of your "little" hero so Horner is most likely improving on his junk. Pwar har har!!

Legends of the Fall rules. This world has slowly sunk to the depths of moral depravity and all innocence and beauty has been lost by both liberals and conservatives. That is what that movie is about..how since 1914, we have lost what we had of the beauty in this world..everyone is fat and gluttonous and dresses in sloppy Walmart attire. The trees are gone and up are the malls and yuppie houses. The tv has taken away my children's innocence..I homeschool them and it has become a small bust at times because the TV and the interent is still pushing this bloodguilty hands' attitude on them..thank God they have not taken the bait..yet. Nobody will take away my dream world of the way people should be and you all know it..God, on every channel there are homos kissing each other, and not in love, just for the sexual promiscuity of it..only a rare bunch are really gay and in love and "normal". The rest like to grab hetero men's packages against their will and laugh about it, and molest little children and make them gay too. Don't beleive me? Just watch one of their "pride" parades. I think they should be rated R. If I had a hetero parade, it wouldn't look half as disgusting. Why do they base their life around plugging each other's anuses. Why doesn't anybody talk about that? That is why we have AIDS and the poor people that have contracted it from their hubbies who are sneaking around in those filthy bars late after dark, screwing people they dont' even know. Same with all the teens these days, having sex with everyone at nightclubs, getting prego and diseases. God, the little abortion graves all the way to the horizon, and not from rape victims either, I have been in those places and the girls are bragging, yes, BRAGGING, how many of them they have had, in the locker rooms, and God, all the men who have been killed in war..millions and millions, and God, what about all the children suffering and growing up to be psychos or whatever because they are not breastfed, they are thrown in daycare, crying all day, all day long for their mommy (I have spent a lot of time in one becasue a friend of mine runs one), then they are thrown in school, their parents are most likely divorced or apart by then, the stepparents or uncle molests them, or their teachers,or whoever, and then they leave high school not knowing how to read..they can't get a job, so they become gang members or drug dealers and then you know the rest.

I am hiding from you all and leaving the state. I will hide in Wyoming or Montana or Washington and try to pretend you nuts aren't around me. I just don't belong here in CA. I ache for my four children and what the world holds for them in 20 years. YOu are all so proud of yourselves and what you have done...well done at first you hippies, but you have carried it too far when you let child murderers,and Mason for that matter, go free because of their "bad childhoood" or when you tell men not to at least "open doors for me" on a date. Please stop the world..I want to get off...and stop telling women what we need to be happy..we are happy with our babies and our lovers and our houses. If a woman wants a career, that is great, but don't have kids..they are not pets you put up like a car or a fancy jacket. They die inside without love and whenever you walk out the door and leave them...don't let those liberal fool you. You are hurting the next generation..CLOCKWORK ORANGE..HERE WE COME!!

Junebug



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Observer
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  In Response to:
Max

  Responses to this Comment:
antizimmerhorner
Re: Horner IS a THIEF   Friday, March 5, 2004 (5:32 a.m.) 

Well, i dont think anyone can deny that Horner has been influenced by (and used) some of the Classical composers works. Afterall, he's literally stolen whole sections of Karachaturian's works at times,and also Prokofiev. The first racy section of "Stealing the Enterprise" from Star Trek III is literally lifted and pasted straight out of a section of Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet (oddly enough). His most shameless rip off,is copying to a large degree from Karachaturian's "Invention" piece from "Gayaneh",during the scene at the beginning of Aliens where Ripley's pod arrives at the space station. Horner denies he was inspired by Gayaneh.

But the thing is,you can find this with even our most famous and revered film composers. Listen to John William's "Home Alone" score (in particular the much loved and famous "Making the Plane" cue which accompanies any frantic moment of running around). Williams stole most of the structure of that piece from Tchai's "Russian Dance" from the Nutracker Suite. You could put the two pieces together and sit with mouth agape at the cheek of it. So Horner is not the only one by any means. Jerry has also used structures from Hermmann in his scores. Nobody is immune from this. And while Horner may be the most "blatant" and less subtle in how he incorporates his favourite bits,i think we have to remember that many of our favourite cues from our favourite film composers are influenced by everyone from Holst to Prokofiev to Karachaturian. Nobody can help but be influenced. Very few composers are "entirely" original in their works (certainly if they were taught by existing composers),or just listened to particular works all of their lives. If we sat down and began picking lifts from previous works, then our respect for our most revered and respected film composers,would fall like a lead weight.It's best not to delve too deeply into thid phenomenon. Ignorance "is" bliss,in this case .

>>>Original post) - Justice should be restored! RED HEAT Main Title by Prokofiev. There is another example of Horner' s talent to steal the pieces from other composers. While Red Heat isn't among the popular Horner soundtracks, there is a track Main Title which is always impressed me with its use of chorus and unusual harmony. "The opening and closing titles are nothing like I've ever heard Horner score before" -- said in Filmtracks review. Sure. Its because he didn't write it at all! The whole piece is taken from number II "The Philosophers" from Sergei Prokofiev hidden satiric "Cantata for the 20th Anniversary of the October Revolution". Listen the example on Amazon.com. Horner added some percussion to it and re-arranged it for the movie. But it never mentioned on the film end credits or CD soundtrack. How about copyright, Mr. Horner!!!


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antizimmerhorner
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  In Response to:
Observer
Re: Horner IS a THIEF   Thursday, December 16, 2004 (12:35 p.m.) 

what was the subject of this comment?

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