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Fellowship theme..

Sjanger
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(ip503db8f9.speed.planet.nl)


  Responses to this Comment:
ritchie s
Simoon
roybatty
Fellowship theme..   Wednesday, October 20, 2004 (3:22 p.m.) 

I just read a review at Amazon.com and someone claimed that the Fellowship Theme is actually a rip from the NFL Sunday Night TV theme, played during football season. He also claimed that the first phrase from the "This is my father's world" Hymn is identical to the first notes of the Hobbit's Theme. This last statement is correct, listen (link below), and I would really like to know wether his other statement, about the Fellowship theme might be correct. If so, I hope Shore didn't do it on purpose, but can anyone help me out wether he is right or not? Thanks,

Sjanger


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ritchie s
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  In Response to:
Sjanger

  Responses to this Comment:
G.K.
Re: Fellowship theme..   Friday, October 22, 2004 (10:28 a.m.) 

i highly doubt that...it just could be conicendence (spellin?Q)

lol thats a joke, lmao...i mean im a hardcore fan of lotr, but it does sound simliar but its done and over with. lol



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G.K.
(p508c67a5.dip.t-dialin.net)

  In Response to:
ritchie s
I know this post-compositional phenomenon   Sunday, October 24, 2004 (2:47 p.m.) 

Sometimes I would write a piece and after it's finished and I listen to it, I say to myself "you know, that sounds a little like..."

You unconsciously get influenced by music you've heard before, forgot about it, and when you start thinking about a musical motif, it pops up like a really good "idea".

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Simoon
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  In Response to:
Sjanger
Re: Fellowship theme..   Saturday, October 23, 2004 (2:01 p.m.) 

> I just read a review at Amazon.com and someone claimed that the Fellowship
> Theme is actually a rip from the NFL Sunday Night TV theme, played during
> football season. He also claimed that the first phrase from the "This
> is my father's world" Hymn is identical to the first notes of the
> Hobbit's Theme. This last statement is correct, listen (link below), and I
> would really like to know wether his other statement, about the Fellowship
> theme might be correct. If so, I hope Shore didn't do it on purpose, but
> can anyone help me out wether he is right or not? Thanks,

> Sjanger

I agree with you. There is a great similarity between those two themes, the first 7 notes are the same actually, but the tonality is different, as far as I can tell, and of course, the rest is different too.
He might have heard it somewhere,( it's a psalm, so it's probably used very often ) and simply the idea of that music stayed in his mind. But I would never say that he actually copied it.
And that particular part is very easy to remember and also to play. And it's no wonder that it was already used.
And actually you can even find some similarities between great world composers ( classical music ) if you really want to. Only someone who is a profesional or listens to that kind of music very often can distinct some composers by simply listening to their music. But that is only my opinion.
I haven't heard anything official about that.
Simoon

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roybatty
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  In Response to:
Sjanger
Re: Fellowship theme..Is Howard Shore a Plagiarist??   Sunday, October 8, 2006 (10:08 p.m.) 

> I just read a review at Amazon.com and someone claimed that the Fellowship
> Theme is actually a rip from the NFL Sunday Night TV theme, played during
> football season. He also claimed that the first phrase from the "This
> is my father's world" Hymn is identical to the first notes of the
> Hobbit's Theme. This last statement is correct, listen (link below), and I
> would really like to know wether his other statement, about the Fellowship
> theme might be correct. If so, I hope Shore didn't do it on purpose, but
> can anyone help me out wether he is right or not? Thanks,

> Sjanger

I dont Know about the T.V. Theme but when I first heard the fellowship theme in the cinema I kept thinking how it reminded me of Michael Kamen's Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves, and it clearly is. BUT, I have since discovered equally striking similarities elsewhere: the opening five notes of the theme are almost identical to a portion of the fourth movement of Dvorek's From the New World Symphony (No.9), while the subsequent nine note sequence is very similar to a phrase in Sibelius's 3rd. Has Howard Shore plagiarised from one of these sources or some of them or all of them? Or is it all just innocent and coincidental, or completely unconscious on the composer's part? We will never have the true answer to those questions, I guess. Many of the themes and phrases in the score seem to bear similarities with more than one other piece of music. You mentioned "This is My Father's World" and the Shire theme, and there is a clear resemblance. But when I first heard it it I thought it sounded like a ripp-off of James Horner's Titanic, Main Theme. It may well be that Shore took the Titanic melody and just turned it upside-down and inside-out, but it's equally possible that it is derived from Holst's "Jupiter, Bringer of Jollity" from "The planets" like "For the Love of a Princess" i Horner's Braveheart is. And besides, although classical purists would probably deny it, "Jupiter" itself is nothing if not a reworking of Hubert Parry's 1916 hymn "Jerusalem": since the structures of both melodies are nigh-on identical it seems that, in this case, Gustav Holst is more of a plagiarist than Horner or Shore.

Other similarities I have noticed between Lord of the Rings score and other music:

* The "Isengard/Uruk-Hai" Theme resembles three other pieces of music that I know of. The sequence of notes is virtually the same as one in Sibelius's 2nd Symphony while it also strongly resembles one of the themes in Horner's Aliens (in the film, this music plays over the scene with Ripley fighting the mother Alien at the end. The clanging metalic sound is almost to the exact same tempo.) So, I then assumed that Shore had composited the two pieces. But listen to Brad Fidel's "Terminator" Theme and it's virtually the same sequence but with different tonality. So who knows? Also...

*the descending third motif=the "Dies Irae" chant,

*The History of the Ring Theme is very similar to the central melody out of Holst's "Venus, Bringer of Peace", "The Planets".

*The Balrog music is identical to a piece in one of Phillip Glass's "Quatsi" scores (sorry, can't recall which one as i'm unfamiliar with them only I heard it on Classic FM!!!)

* I'm surprised that it's not mentioned that the Gondor/Mnas Tirith theme sounds like "Adante" out of Tchaikovsky's "Swan Lake". It clearly utilises the patterning of that piece, but then so do both Gershwin's "Summertime" in "Porgy and Bess" and Willams for the "Force Theme" in Star Wars.

* The music that plays after Gandalf falls into the pit with the Balrog in the first movie is quite similar to the hymn "Nearer my God to Thee". At least, Ithink it is.

* The choral passages that underscore the ents fighting outside Isengard strongly resemble those in Boito's oprea "Mefistofele". Maybe it was an influence.

* Finally, I believe that a sequence from Brahmes's "Lullaby" is lifted for the melody of "Into the West" (would make perfect sense that one, wuoldn't it?)

So is this all plagiarism or coincidence? Or a combination of the two. Ileave you to decide. That is unless you are already aware of the above examples and maybe more.



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