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Comments about the soundtrack for Othello (Ballet) (Elliot Goldenthal)
Who authorized this idiot Filmtracks reviewer to comment on Goldenthal's genius?

Derrick N. Overton
(203.228.36.27)


  Responses to this Comment:
RodStoicheff
Christian Clemmensen
Smulihoffi
Who authorized this idiot Filmtracks reviewer to comment on Goldenthal's genius?   Wednesday, July 30, 2003 (7:40 p.m.) 

It is clear that the people who write reviews for Filmtracks.com have no idea what Goldenthal is about. Goldenthal is pure genius and Othello is exactly what illustrates this talent. But three stars? Are these stupid people actually paid to write these sorry reviews?

First Titus, then In Dreams, and now this? Dismiss these uneducated reviewers!



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RodStoicheff
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  In Response to:
Derrick N. Overton

  Responses to this Comment:
JS Park
Give the reviewer some credit   Thursday, July 31, 2003 (7:24 a.m.) 

I agree that this site has had some difficulties on reviewing film music that falls off the mainstream. I myself love Goldenthalís music and I have been a critic of this siteís, sometimes, lack of objectivity and understanding of the music they review, but we should give the site some credit, because instead of ignoring composers like Goldenthal, they acknowledge that they donít know everything by revisiting the composerís work or by printing alternative reviews. This shows they're at least trying to broaden their horizons.

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JS Park
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tate.net)

  In Response to:
RodStoicheff

  Responses to this Comment:
JS Park
Re: Give the reviewer some credit   Tuesday, June 15, 2004 (9:30 a.m.) 

> I agree that this site has had some difficulties on reviewing film music
> that falls off the mainstream. I myself love Goldenthalís music and I have
> been a critic of this siteís, sometimes, lack of objectivity and
> understanding of the music they review, but we should give the site some
> credit, because instead of ignoring composers like Goldenthal, they
> acknowledge that they donít know everything by revisiting the composerís
> work or by printing alternative reviews. This shows they're at least
> trying to broaden their horizons.

You see, Christian looooooooooooves John Williams=doesnt like goldenthal.Well I am not a "zealot" lol like the other person said but I have extreme respect for Goldenthal and frankly feel sorry for him with people like this around (christian). awwwww he is dissonant...SO WHAT?? He is truly a brilliant man who is HIGHLY underrated. I am not saying Christian is an asshole. He isnt, I just dissagree with him on things, I mean hell, its his opinion so you know....

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JS Park
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  In Response to:
JS Park
Re: Give the reviewer some credit   Thursday, June 17, 2004 (8:41 a.m.) 

> You see, Christian looooooooooooves John Williams=doesnt like
> goldenthal.Well I am not a "zealot" lol like the other person
> said but I have extreme respect for Goldenthal and frankly feel sorry for
> him with people like this around (christian). awwwww he is dissonant...SO
> WHAT?? He is tru"ly a brilliant man who is HIGHLY underrated. I am not
> saying Christian is an asshole. He isnt, I just dissagree with him on
> things, I mean hell, its his opinion so you know....

I take ALL that back that I said good about you, Christian you are a horrible a*shole!!"Goldenthal does well enough mutilating the music on his own albums!" CHRISTIAN SAID THOSE WORDS!!! I think you are mean christian and that is a very un-objective view. ELliot should whoop you for that, I know I would...

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Christian Clemmensen
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  In Response to:
Derrick N. Overton

  Responses to this Comment:
Pedestrian Wolf
Chris Tilton
Krishna Manohar
Re: Who authorized this idiot Filmtracks reviewer? ... I did.   Thursday, July 31, 2003 (10:48 a.m.) 

...in fact, I am the idiot Filmtracks reviewer.

> It is clear that the people who write reviews for Filmtracks.com have no
> idea what Goldenthal is about. Goldenthal is pure genius and Othello is
> exactly what illustrates this talent. But three stars? Are these stupid
> people actually paid to write these sorry reviews?

Yes. A decent wage. Amazing, isn't it?

> First Titus, then In Dreams, and now this? Dismiss these uneducated
> reviewers!

Here's what I don't understand. It makes sense that I get blasted for giving Pirates of the Caribbean one star, because fans of Hans Zimmer's empire are typically testosterone-driven youth... They don't sit around listening to Elmer Bernstein or Philip Glass in their spare time. A lot of them wouldn't know the difference between a clarinet and an oboe even if one (or both) was lodged firmly up their rear end.

But I expected more intelligence from Goldenthal fans. After all, with Goldenthal's music being so challenging in countless regards, I assumed that the people who enjoyed the intricacies of his music were a sophisticated, educated crowd... not too far distant from classical music collectors. And yet, the more I review these scores --regardless of the respect I show them in the review (apart from my personal opinion)-- you Goldenthal fans have turned out to be just as moronic, fanatical, and ridiculous as the Zimmerites.

How can this be?

Christian



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Pedestrian Wolf
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  In Response to:
Christian Clemmensen

  Responses to this Comment:
Christian Clemmensen
Re: Who authorized this idiot Filmtracks reviewer? ... I did.   Thursday, July 31, 2003 (11:16 a.m.) 

. And yet, the more I review these scores --regardless of the
> respect I show them in the review (apart from my personal opinion)-- you
> Goldenthal fans have turned out to be just as moronic, fanatical, and
> ridiculous as the Zimmerites.

> How can this be?

> Christian

While I will make no defense on the way other fans have expressed their oppinions, I think part of the reason these reviews keep getting such a huge backlash is that you generally don't show the scores due respect. You make the occasional concession to their complexity, but then go off on how they're "unlistenable" because dissonance isn't your cup of tea, or because the wide range of styles turns you off. Which is fine, but there are more diplomatic ways of asserting criticism. When you imply that the composer somehow failed because you personally don't care for his technique, it's easy to see why so many fans get upset. Because the message you send, whether intentionally or not, is not "I don't care for this," it's "This is poorly composed." And when you send that message when dealing with a composer of such hugely musical complex works that are revered by even the classical community, then you're walking on very very thin ice.

Paul Cote

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Christian Clemmensen
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  In Response to:
Pedestrian Wolf

  Responses to this Comment:
Pedestrian Wolf
Re: Who authorized this idiot Filmtracks reviewer? ... I did.   Thursday, July 31, 2003 (11:42 a.m.) 

> but there are more diplomatic ways of asserting criticism. When you imply that
> the composer somehow failed because you personally don't care for his
> technique, it's easy to see why so many fans get upset.

Then what's the point of a review? Is it supposed to be strictly informational? Do you guys expect the review to be all diplomacy and no opinion?

It seems to me that this comment reasserts that it is simply the opinion that is pissing people off. You're right, I didn't like every part of Othello. But I also thought that Goldenthal screwed it up to an extent in those parts.

PARTS of Goldenthal's Othello did indeed fail. He did not capture the romantic element between Othello and Desdemona. The two love each other very much, and none of that is reflected in Goldenthal's music. You can write a brilliant answer to the wrong question.

Christian


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Pedestrian Wolf
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  In Response to:
Christian Clemmensen
Re: Who authorized this idiot Filmtracks reviewer? ... I did.   Friday, August 1, 2003 (1:09 a.m.) 

> Then what's the point of a review? Is it supposed to be strictly
> informational? Do you guys expect the review to be all diplomacy and no
> opinion?

My point was that diplomacy and opinion can go hand in hand. I don't think anybody would be upset to hear that you didn't like certain Goldenthal scores (and even fewer would be surprised). What pisses people off is that rather than just right out state, "I don't care for this sort of music" and move on, you imply that the music itself is poorly composed, or "unlistenable" as you so frequently put it.

> PARTS of Goldenthal's Othello did indeed fail. He did not capture the
> romantic element between Othello and Desdemona. The two love each other
> very much, and none of that is reflected in Goldenthal's music. You can
> write a brilliant answer to the wrong question.

That's an interesting point, but you're treating Goldenthal's ballet as though it were a film-score where Goldenthal was obligated to suplement his music to someone else's vision. Goldenthal takes Shakespeare's Othello as his starting point for inspiration, but the ballet is still Goldenthal's own independant work. As such, Goldenthal is free to study whichever themes from Othello he finds the most interesting and take departures whenever the muse strikes him. He isn't "failing" if he ignores the romantic side of the story because the ballet is a study in Othello, not a summary. It isn't a brilliant answer to the wrong question because nobody asked a question.

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Chris Tilton
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  In Response to:
Christian Clemmensen
Re: Possible answer   Thursday, July 31, 2003 (5:23 p.m.) 

> Here's what I don't understand. It makes sense that I get blasted for
> giving Pirates of the Caribbean one star, because fans of Hans Zimmer's
> empire are typically testosterone-driven youth... They don't sit around
> listening to Elmer Bernstein or Philip Glass in their spare time. A lot of
> them wouldn't know the difference between a clarinet and an oboe even if
> one (or both) was lodged firmly up their rear end.

> But I expected more intelligence from Goldenthal fans. After all, with
> Goldsmith's music being so challenging in countless regards, I assumed
> that the people who enjoyed the intricacies of his music were a
> sophisticated, educated crowd... not too far distant from classical music
> collectors. And yet, the more I review these scores --regardless of the
> respect I show them in the review (apart from my personal opinion)-- you
> Goldenthal fans have turned out to be just as moronic, fanatical, and
> ridiculous as the Zimmerites.

I think maybe the more intelligent Goldenthal appreciators either don't read your site, or just stay quiet. I know plenty of Goldenthal lovers who have never even heard of Filmtracks.

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Krishna Manohar
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net)

  In Response to:
Christian Clemmensen
Re: Who authorized this idiot Filmtracks reviewer? ... I did.   Wednesday, September 3, 2003 (4:39 p.m.) 

> ...in fact, I am the idiot Filmtracks reviewer.

> Yes. A decent wage. Amazing, isn't it?

> Here's what I don't understand. It makes sense that I get blasted for
> giving Pirates of the Caribbean one star, because fans of Hans Zimmer's
> empire are typically testosterone-driven youth... They don't sit around
> listening to Elmer Bernstein or Philip Glass in their spare time. A lot of
> them wouldn't know the difference between a clarinet and an oboe even if
> one (or both) was lodged firmly up their rear end.

> But I expected more intelligence from Goldenthal fans. After all, with
> Goldsmith's music being so challenging in countless regards, I assumed
> that the people who enjoyed the intricacies of his music were a
> sophisticated, educated crowd... not too far distant from classical music
> collectors. And yet, the more I review these scores --regardless of the
> respect I show them in the review (apart from my personal opinion)-- you
> Goldenthal fans have turned out to be just as moronic, fanatical, and
> ridiculous as the Zimmerites.

> How can this be?

> Christian

Christian,

I for one happen to be a Goldenthal fan, but I respect your opinion.
Please don't assume that we are zealots. I am pretty objective
about filmmusic, so please calm down.

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Smulihoffi
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  In Response to:
Derrick N. Overton
Opinions...   Friday, August 1, 2003 (9:35 a.m.) 

What the hell is wrong with people?!
For real, what is the matter with you all?!

Don't you knwo that people are different from one another? That their minds are different? That their opinion just might slightly differ from one another?
What the hell is so wrong about not liking something? I mean Christian's thoughts on this CD (or any other for that matter) aren't the only truth. You see, the great thing with having a brain in your head (eventhough you who criticise other people's opinions don't seem to have one) is that every human being's brain works in a different way. You can have your own thoughts. You do not have to agree with other people. You CAN agree with them, but ONLY if you want to (which unfortunately has not always been the case, in, say, Soviet Union, China, Korea etc.).
Don't you guys remember the film "People vs. Larry Flint"? A greeat film by the way. But my point is, there's this fabulous line in the movie. It goes like this:
"(Yeah well), opinions are like assholes. Everybody's got one."

So, if someoe's "asshole" is a little different from yours, it doesn't mean it's wrong. Please, allow people to have the kinds of "assholes" they want to.

-Smulihoffi


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