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Comments about the soundtrack for Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith (John Williams)
"Duel of the Fates" vrs "Battle of the Heroes" ???

phoenixist
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  Responses to this Comment:
FishBulb
G.K.
"Duel of the Fates" vrs "Battle of the Heroes" ???   Tuesday, August 2, 2005 (12:34 a.m.) 

the comparision between "Duel of the Fates" and "Battle of the Heroes", i feel is unjustified. John williams is the best movie composer and for a reason. the duel of fates is the fight sequence between the good and the evil ... it had to be driving and action based as it is but battle of heros between anakin and his master isnt the same fight ... we are connected to both the characters fighting against each other, anakin is going towards darkness we know he didnt have evil ambitions ... the fight sequense right required a more emotional action cue and rightly composed by john williams
it works wonders in the movie ... as anakin and Obi-Wan fight the music adds emotion and still maintains the driving action for the amazing lightsabers fight.
a fitting cue for a deserving scene

phoenixist

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FishBulb
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  In Response to:
phoenixist

  Responses to this Comment:
Dogan Bilge
Re: "Duel of the Fates" vrs "Battle of the Heroes" ???   Tuesday, August 2, 2005 (3:27 a.m.) 

> the comparision between "Duel of the Fates" and "Battle of
> the Heroes", i feel is unjustified. John williams is the best movie
> composer and for a reason. the duel of fates is the fight sequence between
> the good and the evil ... it had to be driving and action based as it is
> but battle of heros between anakin and his master isnt the same fight ...
> we are connected to both the characters fighting against each other,
> anakin is going towards darkness we know he didnt have evil ambitions ...
> the fight sequense right required a more emotional action cue and rightly
> composed by john williams
it works wonders in the movie ... as anakin
> and Obi-Wan fight the music adds emotion and still maintains the driving
> action for the amazing lightsabers fight.
a fitting cue for a
> deserving scene

> phoenixist

Well put. "Battle of the Heroes" is indeed a battle between two heroes, whilst "Duel of the Fates" is a battle between two extremes; two absolutes. Clue is in the title(s). They can be compared as they are both essentially SW themes, but you could argue they are too different within that umbrella.

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Dogan Bilge
(shwc4-pc-15.cl.msu.edu)

  In Response to:
FishBulb

  Responses to this Comment:
JC
Re: "Duel of the Fates" vrs "Battle of the Heroes" ???   Sunday, August 28, 2005 (4:52 p.m.) 

it works wonders in the movie ... as anakin
a fitting cue for a

> Well put. "Battle of the Heroes" is indeed a battle between two
> heroes, whilst "Duel of the Fates" is a battle between two
> extremes; two absolutes. Clue is in the title(s). They can be compared as
> they are both essentially SW themes, but you could argue they are too
> different within that umbrella.

Not directly related but in Duel Of The Fates a clear pattern is used. Babam babam babam bibam. So it basically says, you can do it this way or that way meaning, you can choose this way or that way. I think it is about the fates of the enemies, they will be different according to their actions. Battle of the heroes doesn't have that kind of pattern. It is just a dramatic music, maybe a little too much since the film doesn't have that climax because of Lucas' inability. And to sense a thematic relevance to the film is hard since Episode 3 music doesn't have any themes except battle of heroes, and that is a motive rather than a complete theme. It would be great to hear a slow version of battle of heroes before the fight, slow and quiet during slow scenes maybe. I don't know why it is not used in other places. Duel Of The Fates theme was appearing in several places in Episode 1.

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JC
(24.115.96.95.res-cmts.haz.ptd.net)

  In Response to:
Dogan Bilge

  Responses to this Comment:
Dogan Bilge
Re: "Duel of the Fates" vrs "Battle of the Heroes" ???   Monday, September 12, 2005 (7:31 p.m.) 

> it works wonders in the movie ... as anakin
a fitting cue for a

> Not directly related but in Duel Of The Fates a clear pattern is used.
> Babam babam babam bibam. So it basically says, you can do it this way or
> that way meaning, you can choose this way or that way. I think it is about
> the fates of the enemies, they will be different according to their
> actions. Battle of the heroes doesn't have that kind of pattern. It is
> just a dramatic music, maybe a little too much since the film doesn't have
> that climax because of Lucas' inability. And to sense a thematic relevance
> to the film is hard since Episode 3 music doesn't have any themes except
> battle of heroes, and that is a motive rather than a complete theme. It
> would be great to hear a slow version of battle of heroes before the
> fight, slow and quiet during slow scenes maybe. I don't know why it is not
> used in other places. Duel Of The Fates theme was appearing in several
> places in Episode 1.

I have to say that I read, but am not directly quoting people above me. I disagree with the people that feel the scene wasn't as dramatic and powerful as it should be. Yes there was room for improvement (a great deal more than most films), but the simple fact is that I have sat at my piano for hours with pictures of that scene from the film trying my very hardest to come up with something that may not fit with Star Wars (for I'm not that good of a composer), but fits vaguely with the scene...and each time I come back somehow to Battle of the Heroes. The theme created here is one of William's best and manages to make myself and my one friend feel so incredibly overwrought with sadness that, I can't continue attempting to alter it. The simple fact is that yes Lucas has to be the worst schmuck with a writing career, but this scene could have been horribly over-done or under-done or just plain bad from start to finish, but the music John created for this bit is so perfect that it actually alters my perception of the occuring scenes. I feel a new reason to cry when I watch this bit, especially when Duel of the Fates Starts to create the right feeling and then Battle of the Heroes following it creates the most heartwrenching bit of the film third to the fall of padme and rise of vader and the downfall of the jedi.

In truth this film could have been absolutely reviled by fans, critics, and public, but it wasn't because John's music struck a chord, maybe not repetetively with the same cues, but with the same prevelant idea of sadness, darkness, laments, and choral-brass fanfares. The simple idea was that this was not only the end for anakin, the jedi, padme, and so forth but also for the series and the way that the music ties those things together is just perfect.

*sorry if i offend anyone with what i post*

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Dogan Bilge
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et)

  In Response to:
JC
Re: "Duel of the Fates" vrs "Battle of the Heroes" ???   Wednesday, September 28, 2005 (7:49 p.m.) 

a fitting cue for a

> I have to say that I read, but am not directly quoting people above me. I
> disagree with the people that feel the scene wasn't as dramatic and
> powerful as it should be. Yes there was room for improvement (a great deal
> more than most films), but the simple fact is that I have sat at my piano
> for hours with pictures of that scene from the film trying my very hardest
> to come up with something that may not fit with Star Wars (for I'm not
> that good of a composer), but fits vaguely with the scene...and each time
> I come back somehow to Battle of the Heroes. The theme created here is one
> of William's best and manages to make myself and my one friend feel so
> incredibly overwrought with sadness that, I can't continue attempting to
> alter it. The simple fact is that yes Lucas has to be the worst schmuck
> with a writing career, but this scene could have been horribly over-done
> or under-done or just plain bad from start to finish, but the music John
> created for this bit is so perfect that it actually alters my perception
> of the occuring scenes. I feel a new reason to cry when I watch this bit,
> especially when Duel of the Fates Starts to create the right feeling and
> then Battle of the Heroes following it creates the most heartwrenching bit
> of the film third to the fall of padme and rise of vader and the downfall
> of the jedi.

> In truth this film could have been absolutely reviled by fans, critics,
> and public, but it wasn't because John's music struck a chord, maybe not
> repetetively with the same cues, but with the same prevelant idea of
> sadness, darkness, laments, and choral-brass fanfares. The simple idea was
> that this was not only the end for anakin, the jedi, padme, and so forth
> but also for the series and the way that the music ties those things
> together is just perfect.

> *sorry if i offend anyone with what i post*

I agree with you. Whenever I sit down on my piano, I play Battle Of Heroes and it's really sad when played on piano especially. That's why I was wondering why it wasn't used anywhere else in the film because it's so touching when played slow. And again I agree, Lucas writes bad but that scene is not that bad. I also felt some shivering when battle of heroes began to play in the film and obi wan was talking to anakin with almost a crying voice. It was nice. But again, it would have been great in the hands of a good writer/director. John did great in that scene but I still won't compare it to Duel Of The Fates. The latter one has a much more memorizable motive, it's technically more complex work. And it's more enjoyable to listen. But I listen to Battle Of Heroes every day since I bought the album. That's another thing. : )


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G.K.
(p5494c52b.dip.t-dialin.net)

  In Response to:
phoenixist

  Responses to this Comment:
Jay
Nonsense   Thursday, August 4, 2005 (10:15 a.m.) 

> the comparision between "Duel of the Fates" and "Battle of
> the Heroes", i feel is unjustified. John williams is the best movie
> composer and for a reason. the duel of fates is the fight sequence between
> the good and the evil ... it had to be driving and action based as it is
> but battle of heros between anakin and his master isnt the same fight ...
> we are connected to both the characters fighting against each other,
> anakin is going towards darkness we know he didnt have evil ambitions ...
> the fight sequense right required a more emotional action cue and rightly
> composed by john williams
it works wonders in the movie ... as anakin
> and Obi-Wan fight the music adds emotion and still maintains the driving
> action for the amazing lightsabers fight.
a fitting cue for a
> deserving scene

> phoenixist

Nonsense. Only because the scenes the two cues accompany are different, the music doesn't automatically sound different.
The two duels might require a similar sound, but surely Williams could have achieved the same effect without mimicking DotF.
And, IMHO, BotH is far too over the top and overdramatic for the scenes it accompanies.

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Jay
(423226250.innernet.net)

  In Response to:
G.K.

  Responses to this Comment:
G.K.
Re: Nonsense   Friday, September 9, 2005 (10:33 a.m.) 

it works wonders in the movie ... as anakin
a fitting cue for a

> Nonsense. Only because the scenes the two cues accompany are different,
> the music doesn't automatically sound different.
The two duels might
> require a similar sound, but surely Williams could have achieved the same
> effect without mimicking DotF.
And, IMHO, BotH is far too over the top
> and overdramatic for the scenes it accompanies.

"Far too over the top and overdramatic for the scenes it accompanies?" So I suppose that Anakin fighting Obi-Wan after losing his battle between good and evil isn't dramatic enough for you? And I think that maybe you should listen to both themes again, because although there are similarities between the two, it would hardly be fair to call Battle of the Heroes a knockoff of Duel of the Fates.

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G.K.
(p5494c3b9.dip.t-dialin.net)

  In Response to:
Jay

  Responses to this Comment:
Some guy
Jay
Re: Nonsense   Sunday, September 11, 2005 (5:12 a.m.) 

> it works wonders in the movie ... as anakin
a fitting cue for a
>
The two duels might
And, IMHO, BotH is far too over the top

> "Far too over the top and overdramatic for the scenes it
> accompanies?" So I suppose that Anakin fighting Obi-Wan after losing
> his battle between good and evil isn't dramatic enough for you?

Well, no. There's no drama in the abject piffle that George Lucas calls a Star Wars "film". Consequently, I find Battle Of The Heroes VERY over the top. If the movie worked, it might have been alright, but as it stands, it sounds like Williams was scoring a different movie.

>And I
> think that maybe you should listen to both themes again, because although
> there are similarities between the two, it would hardly be fair to call
> Battle of the Heroes a knockoff of Duel of the Fates.

I didn't say "knockoff", I said that Williams "mimicked" DotF. Quite a difference there.

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Some guy
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  In Response to:
G.K.

  Responses to this Comment:
G.K.
Re: Nonsense   Sunday, September 25, 2005 (4:55 p.m.) 

a fitting cue for a
The two duels might
And, IMHO, BotH is far too
> over the top

> Well, no. There's no drama in the abject piffle that George Lucas calls a
> Star Wars "film". Consequently, I find Battle Of The Heroes VERY
> over the top. If the movie worked, it might have been alright, but as it
> stands, it sounds like Williams was scoring a different movie.

> I didn't say "knockoff", I said that Williams
> "mimicked" DotF. Quite a difference there.

You're just an imbecilic movie critic.

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G.K.
(p5494d455.dip.t-dialin.net)

  In Response to:
Some guy

  Responses to this Comment:
Justin
Re: Nonsense   Wednesday, September 28, 2005 (8:34 a.m.) 

> You're just an imbecilic movie critic.

Mind to elaborate? Otherwise you're just "some guy" who randomly insults people.


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Justin
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  In Response to:
G.K.
Re: Nonsense   Wednesday, March 8, 2006 (9:42 a.m.) 

> Mind to elaborate? Otherwise you're just "some guy" who randomly
> insults people.
and you have the same mentality as all the old people at the oscars

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Jay
(423226250.innernet.net)

  In Response to:
G.K.
Re: Nonsense   Friday, October 7, 2005 (7:33 a.m.) 

a fitting cue for a
The two duels might
And, IMHO, BotH is far too
> over the top

> Well, no. There's no drama in the abject piffle that George Lucas calls a
> Star Wars "film". Consequently, I find Battle Of The Heroes VERY
> over the top. If the movie worked, it might have been alright, but as it
> stands, it sounds like Williams was scoring a different movie.

> I didn't say "knockoff", I said that Williams
> "mimicked" DotF. Quite a difference there.

Oh my gosh-What a difference between "knockoff" and "mimicked!" When you talk about those two words there isn't much of a difference. And by the way, if you don't like it, then why do you bother listening to it? If you find it "VERY over the top" then listen to something else and stop bitching about what other people like.

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