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Next to Cutthroat?? Hell no

Blair
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(24-56-230-216.mdmmi.voyager.net)


  Responses to this Comment:
Bindner
Next to Cutthroat?? Hell no   Sunday, July 6, 2003 (10:41 a.m.) 

This sounds like a Disney\cartoon score... not one that has to support two real wooden pirate ships. Its conservative, not testing the boundaries of its musicians or score writers; a pirate ship with plastic cannons. Yes it has a few great moments (ruined by distortion and bad American 'lets see how well we can destroy dynamics, and how loud we can get it' compression-not kidding the spectrum graphs on SpectraLAB are FLAT at loud parts) but its style is more contemporary than Cutthroat Island, with a more direct sound than reverberant. The horns and trumpets sound distant like they should be, however the rest of the orchestra including the random sound effects are not stylistic towards the typical pirate sound. Being a percussion major, I think the timp and cymbals are way to direct unlike Cutthroat; we won't talk about the syth percussion. As Mr. Clemmensen points out in his review of Cutthroat, percussion never overwhelms the orchestra in the recording, which was a mixing and musical marvel, however Sinbad has NONE to compare with. Besides the digital sounds, its missing the select instruments that just give the feel of a pirate of the period, such as the harpsichord http://www.s-hamilton.k12.ia.us/antiqua/harpsich.htm for you non music majors-its sounds like Cutthroat track 3, second half. Wheres the 100 member choir? How about the 80 inch base drum rumbles with accompanying cymbal crashes? Pirates were the epitome of Darwins biggest and strongest theory, and the music has to be its catalyst in a picture. Also the softer themes in Sinbad are much simpler and more Disney\little kid and this might have been the intention, but in turn sets the score apart from the more mature Denby score. Sinbad has more cord progressions (melodic) and very common melodies. I do feel the energy in the few opening passages with a dry middle, but a sense of emotion only comes out toward the end. The music has to tell the story, which is what feeds Williams popularity. Sinbad is moving score, but not as complex as Cutthroat was. If only the entire score was written like the end.

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Bindner
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(209.152.125.154)

  In Response to:
Blair

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Scorehound
the_negotiator
At least it sounds better than 'Pirates'   Saturday, July 12, 2003 (3:47 p.m.) 

I listened to that 'Pirates of the Caribbean' score as I watched it, and nearly rolled my eyes. Both Klaus Badelt and Harry Gregson-Williams have roots at Media Ventures, and while both scores weren't much to write home about, I can at least thank Gregson-Williams for not resorting to that overused Media Ventures' trademark sound!
I don't think I'm going to lay all the blame for 'Pirates' on Badelt, though. It sounded a lot like Hans Zimmer's style, and 'Pirates' merely credited Badelt's name at the end. Zimmer, for some reason, likes to hide behind his proteges. Anyway, I was getting a little irritated towards the end, because there was nothing but that cliched boisterous orchestra shooting off rounds all at the same time during the action cues, sounding a lot like 'The Gladiator,' although a little less disjointed and more focused.
I apologize to readers here. I know you wanted to read reviews of the 'Sinbad' score, and I give you 'Pirates.' The truth is, at the time this was being written, there was no review for the score to 'Pirates,' and I felt that it needed a long-winded tirade, so I didn't wait. I hope it helped, regardless!

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Scorehound
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Bindner

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DiBo
Daren
Re: At least it sounds better than 'Pirates'   Sunday, July 13, 2003 (10:31 p.m.) 

You know what really MAKES ME MAD??? Alan Silvestri was supposed to score "Pirates of the Carribbean". Why is God's name would they replace a man who has scored some excellent action music in his day (Predator, The Mummy Returns, Judge Dredd, The Long Kiss Goodnight) with a man who is in connection with synth music sounding Media Ventures? G.W got it right by using an orchestra for this score. I am NOT looking forward to Pirates of the Carribbean as a CD. I was until I found out Badelt had replaced Silvestri...it's film score robbery on a grand scale.


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DiBo
(spi01.vapn.de)

  In Response to:
Scorehound

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Mike
Re: At least it sounds better than 'Pirates'   Monday, July 14, 2003 (9:23 a.m.) 

Im looking forward to a great movie and im sure "Pirates of the Caribbean" will be a great one, at least here in germany well have to wait until september to see the it ! I was also looking foward to the score by Alan Silvestri ... but then i read that Klaus Badelt would score the movie ... a great disappointment !!! I dont like Hans Zimmer and all his CLONES, they all sound nearly the same! I still hope that Badelt will give us a great score ... but i dont think so !!!

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Mike
(12-209-18-66.client.attbi.com)

  In Response to:
DiBo
Re: At least it sounds better than 'Pirates'   Monday, July 14, 2003 (6:12 p.m.) 

First of all, the score to Pirates of the Caribbean was not awful. It could be argued to have a cliched Pirate action sound, but come on, that's the movie...it didn't exactly take itself seriously anyway, which made it even better. I was not looking forward to Silvestri's score and was excited by the thought that Badelt would be scoring it, especially after his amazing work on Time Machine and K-19. I was not disappointed. The main theme for Pirates is dark yet anthemic and the action cues are thrilling. Does it sound like Media Ventures? Yep. Was it supposed to? Yep. Bruckheimer produced the movie; it was the sound he wanted and for good reason, it worked really well. Zimmer is not "hiding" behind his protege's. This was Badelt's score, which Zimmer produced, as any head of a production company should do every now and then. I was actually intrigued to see that there were many other MV composers listed as additional arrangers, such as the recently quiet Nick Glennie-Smith as well as Steve Jablonsky and Jim Dooley. Why? Because they were given less than 2 months notice before the movie's release!! In such short time, they produced a powerful score that works really well for the movie and I am really looking forward to it coming out on album. It's not going to win any Oscars, but it does what it is supposed to and fits the movie really well.

Mike

> Im looking forward to a great movie and im sure "Pirates of the
> Caribbean" will be a great one, at least here in germany well have
> to wait until september to see the it ! I was also looking foward to the
> score by Alan Silvestri ... but then i read that Klaus Badelt would score
> the movie ... a great disappointment !!! I dont like Hans Zimmer and all
> his CLONES, they all sound nearly the same! I still hope that Badelt will
> give us a great score ... but i dont think so !!!

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Daren
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ideotron.ca)

  In Response to:
Scorehound
The reason why..   Thursday, July 17, 2003 (3:43 a.m.) 

Silvestri was left out the project is because of musical differences, that menas Bruckheimer wanted an MV score to begin with and temp tracked the film with MV music. The Silvestri was told to imitate these temp tracks.. He didn't want to and left.



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the_negotiator
(adsl-81-161-182.asm.bellsouth.net)

  In Response to:
Bindner

  Responses to this Comment:
Scorehound
Ahhhh!!!   Tuesday, July 15, 2003 (5:43 p.m.) 

Ugh, I hate it when people say contradictory things like this. Let me first say that this score sounds the way it does because it bears a striking similarity to the parts in Pearl Harbor and Gladiator.... written by Klaus Badelt. Additionally, Zimmer was GOING to score with Badelt, but then decided to 'produce' rather than co-compose (and if you know anything about Zimmer from the MV interviews, he does nothing more in these scenarios than give advice to his proteges and tell them when they're doing a good job).

On to a more aggrevating note, it seems like MediaVentures as a whole cannot win with the general public. When The Rock and The Peacemaker came around, many score fans were tired of the 'same old sound' (synthesizers, rock beats, male choir, etc). So then Zimmer (and the rest of MV) started branching out and scoring movies a little bit differently (Gladiator, The Pledge, Hannibal, Black Hawk Down, Basic, The Italian Job, Metal Gear Solid 2, just to name a few). THEN people started complaining about missing the 'good old days' (Crimson Tide, The Lion King, The Thin Red Line). So now that Pirates comes out, it's a faithful return to the Drop Zone/The Peacemaker style of composing, and people rip their hairs out claiming that it's "more of the same old thing".

At this point, MV can do little to win over everyone (short of ditching the synthesizers, which is one of their trademarks). It's not enough to say "If you don't like it, don't listen to it and let the rest of us enjoy it" because people take that harshly and just respond with some catchy come-back or insult.

So come on folks. Klaus Badelt had little time to write Pirates, and it's credited with 'additional music' to Geoff Zanelli, Jim Dooley, and Steve Jablonsky, the folks who wrote additional music for Pearl Harbor. It should be absolutely NO SURPRISE to anyone how the score turned out.

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Scorehound
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  In Response to:
the_negotiator
Re: Ahhhh!!!   Tuesday, July 29, 2003 (2:03 a.m.) 

Why must there be a style? You look at a film. You look at the story, the action, the characters and see what kind of a score would best fit it. Why was Cutthroat Island so popular? Because both Harlin and Debney knew exactly what kind of score a pirate movie should be. Pirate movies have been scored this way since time immemorial(sp?). Why are many people screaming over this score (Pirates)? Because Cutthroat Island and Sinbad are seafaring scores that are powerful, emotional with a lot of energy and emotion. They represent the characters, the stories and the action. Orchestras can do something that synthesisers can't, and that is to evoke emotion. If Cutthroat Island had been released as a synth score it would have been trashed as well.

You mentioned a limited time Badelt was given to score the music...well if Silvestri had been left in charge of the score there would have been more than enough time to produce a power packed score, and I heard that MV wanted to do this score, so it is their own fault, as well as Bruckheimer's that it sucks (to many people).

Sinbad is an awesome example of a Media Ventures composer who knew exactly what kind of music to write. Williams did a superb job on this score...it is a shame Badelt could not turn out the same effort.

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rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of Christian Clemmensen at Filmtracks Publications. Scoreboard created 7/24/98 and last updated 4/25/15.