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Comments about the soundtrack for Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (James Horner)
Goldsmith aproach

Robert Ritchie
<Send E-Mail>
(pcp02220112pcs.echryh01.nj.comcas
t.net)


  Responses to this Comment:
Pizzaboy
Sharon
Goldsmith aproach   Tuesday, July 8, 2003 (8:18 p.m.) 

He would have probably made an ethoral theme for the creation of life and death, since it was that far from the relase of Final Conflict Ommen III.

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Pizzaboy
(pd9560ad4.dip.t-dialin.net)

  In Response to:
Robert Ritchie

  Responses to this Comment:
Curtis Beaulieu
Re: Goldsmith aproach   Wednesday, July 9, 2003 (5:26 a.m.) 

I agree a Goldsmith spproach would have been much more appropriate. Goldsmith was also familar with the franchies already (because of him being involved in the first movie and his friendship with Courage)

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Curtis Beaulieu
(63.27.49.250)

  In Response to:
Pizzaboy

  Responses to this Comment:
Pizzaboy
Danny French
Re: "Pizzaboy" = "The One"... doesn't this moron follow his own advice?   Thursday, July 10, 2003 (7:51 a.m.) 

> I agree a Goldsmith spproach would have been much more appropriate.
> Goldsmith was also familar with the franchies already (because of him
> being involved in the first movie and his friendship with Courage)

First, didn't you say that you were leaving this site for good? Back when you posted under the name "The One," you said you would relieve us of your poor English and your uninformed statements.

Second, your film music opinions are obviously those of a child. Reading what you have to say in these comment areas, I guess you are under 18. If you were an adult in 1982, when Horner surprised everyone with his dominating Wrath of Khan score, then you wouldn't be so blindly faithful to Goldsmith.

CB



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Pizzaboy
(pd9560833.dip.t-dialin.net)

  In Response to:
Curtis Beaulieu

  Responses to this Comment:
andyf
Re: "Pizzaboy" = "The One"... doesn't this moron follow his own advice?   Friday, July 11, 2003 (8:45 a.m.) 

Well, I am actually over 18, actually a few years.

1.: Insulting people seems to be your only strength. If you have ANY firends you must live in a very odd country.

2.: There is nothing to "understand" about this score. I think it's quite woderfull, but a Goldsmith score would have been better.

Heck, ever heared about OPINIONS?
But no I forgot, you don't deal with people that often, otherwise you would be much nicer, or you are just born that stupid.

3.: Blaming me for my "poor english" is actually the highpoint of your pathetic attempts to get rid of me. My Origin is NOT in the US or in any other english or indogerman-speaking country. But I bet you even don't know what that is.

And my view on filmmusic might be not like yours, although I actually never knew yours.

People like you make the world a worse place



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andyf
(gnome.geo.arizona.edu)

  In Response to:
Pizzaboy

  Responses to this Comment:
Robert Ritchie
Re: "Pizzaboy" = "The One"... doesn't this moron follow his own advice?   Saturday, July 12, 2003 (1:19 p.m.) 

> Well, I am actually over 18, actually a few years.

> 1.: Insulting people seems to be your only strength. If you have ANY
> firends you must live in a very odd country.

> 2.: There is nothing to "understand" about this score. I think
> it's quite woderfull, but a Goldsmith score would have been better.

> Heck, ever heared about OPINIONS?
But no I forgot, you don't deal with
> people that often, otherwise you would be much nicer, or you are just born
> that stupid.

> 3.: Blaming me for my "poor english" is actually the highpoint
> of your pathetic attempts to get rid of me. My Origin is NOT in the US or
> in any other english or indogerman-speaking country. But I bet you even
> don't know what that is.

> And my view on filmmusic might be not like yours, although I actually
> never knew yours.

> People like you make the world a worse place

>

You guys are getting into name calling match over a piece of music that I would guess maybe 1% of the world population would even recognize. That's still a lot of people, but let's try to keep the absurdity to a minimum. Everyone is welcome to their opinion around here, BUT if one wishes to post they should at least be able to conduct an informed, civil debate instead of degenerating into "you don't know what you are talking about!, "you write like a child!", "you make the world a worse place." Internet messageboard flamewars are the passive-aggressive person's playground where it's easy to sit behind a keyboard and lambast someone for the most ridiculous reasons.

Now, I disagree with Pizzaboy's opinion on the Wrath score. Goldsmith's for the first film is an absolutely outstanding piece of music and the main theme has been forever attached to Trek. It is the modern Star Trek theme, hands down. However, it would not have fit well in TWOK. Why? As was mentioned earlier, think about the overall sweep of the film. It focused on themes like life, death, isolation, age, revenge. Goldsmith's theme (and the tone of the first film) reflects more on exploration, the unknown, etc. Horner's theme, along with most of the score, worked to enforce the themes and deep emotional scope of the film. It's impossible to say of Goldsmith good have done as good a job as Horner did, he's certainly as good a composer and has an imposing filmography. However, when you listen to Horner's work, knowing how it was intended in the film, I think it fits perfectly.


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Robert Ritchie
(pcp02220112pcs.echryh01.nj.comcas
t.net)

  In Response to:
andyf

  Responses to this Comment:
andyf
Re: "Pizzaboy" = "The One"... doesn't this moron follow his own advice?   Thursday, July 17, 2003 (10:59 a.m.) 

But no I forgot, you don't deal with

> You guys are getting into name calling match over a piece of music that I
> would guess maybe 1% of the world population would even recognize. That's
> still a lot of people, but let's try to keep the absurdity to a minimum.
> Everyone is welcome to their opinion around here, BUT if one wishes to
> post they should at least be able to conduct an informed, civil debate
> instead of degenerating into "you don't know what you are talking
> about!, "you write like a child!", "you make the world a
> worse place." Internet messageboard flamewars are the
> passive-aggressive person's playground where it's easy to sit behind a
> keyboard and lambast someone for the most ridiculous reasons.

> Now, I disagree with Pizzaboy's opinion on the Wrath score. Goldsmith's
> for the first film is an absolutely outstanding piece of music and the
> main theme has been forever attached to Trek. It is the modern Star Trek
> theme, hands down. However, it would not have fit well in TWOK. Why? As
> was mentioned earlier, think about the overall sweep of the film. It
> focused on themes like life, death, isolation, age, revenge. Goldsmith's
> theme (and the tone of the first film) reflects more on exploration, the
> unknown, etc. Horner's theme, along with most of the score, worked to
> enforce the themes and deep emotional scope of the film. It's impossible
> to say of Goldsmith good have done as good a job as Horner did, he's
> certainly as good a composer and has an imposing filmography. However,
> when you listen to Horner's work, knowing how it was intended in the film,
> I think it fits perfectly.

Why did Horner take the high seas, (if you will) aproach rather than using the elements of the life and death situation mixing some tension into the mix with his broad comopsing in the early 80's


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andyf
(39-39.73-24.tampabay.rr.com)

  In Response to:
Robert Ritchie
Re: "Pizzaboy" = "The One"... doesn't this moron follow his own advice?   Saturday, July 19, 2003 (8:05 p.m.) 

> But no I forgot, you don't deal with

> Why did Horner take the high seas, (if you will) aproach rather than using
> the elements of the life and death situation mixing some tension into the
> mix with his broad comopsing in the early 80's

The director Nicholas Meyer actively described the film as Horatio Hornblower in space. To a certain extent, he directed Horner to give the score a nautical feel.

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Danny French
<Send E-Mail>
(81-178-243-167.dsl.pipex.com)

  In Response to:
Curtis Beaulieu
Re: "Pizzaboy" = "The One"... doesn't this moron follow his own advice?   Sunday, February 8, 2004 (1:39 p.m.) 

Hi folks,

I really must take exception to this particular post for a number of reasons. I've been visiting filmtracks now and posting regularly since the age of seventeen - I'm nineteen now. I can't help but feel that this "you're an idiot, therefore you must be young" attitude is unfair. If the guy is making stupid statements, that's because he's either stupid or he has nothing better to say. It's not because he's young - and you don't know that he is even that! It occurs to me that comments such as those are nothing but cheap swipes - indicative that the author of said comment has no constructive comment to make and therefore resorts to childish mud-slinging and name-calling. If you want to give us a lesson on maturity, perhaps you ought to assess your own first, before handing down your great gospel to us lower mortals!

Goldsmith devotees come in all shapes and sizes. Likewise, the religious Horner fan can be found anywhere. It comes down to a simple case of personal preference. I wasn't born when Star Trek II came out - but does that make me any less qualified to make a statement concerning the score - indeed does it make my opinion any less valid?

Personally, I loved Star Trek II's score - despite not being a particular fan of Horner. Goldsmith does it Goldsmith's way, Horner does it Horner's way. Both were completely different and yet entirely appropriate for their respective motion pictures.

It's just a pity about the sound quality... the orchestral performance is mostly excellent (taking into consideration the obvious budget-related cuts) but the recording is sub-par, and that's putting it lightly. This score is definitely in need of a re-release, and furthermore a bit of digital remastering wouldn't go amiss either.

Cheerio!

Regards, Dan

> First, didn't you say that you were leaving this site for good? Back when
> you posted under the name "The One," you said you would relieve
> us of your poor English and your uninformed statements.

> Second, your film music opinions are obviously those of a child. Reading
> what you have to say in these comment areas, I guess you are under 18. If
> you were an adult in 1982, when Horner surprised everyone with his
> dominating Wrath of Khan score, then you wouldn't be so blindly faithful
> to Goldsmith.

> CB


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Sharon
(89.149.244.84)

  In Response to:
Robert Ritchie
Re: Goldsmith aproach   Thursday, April 29, 2010 (1:51 a.m.) 

George Zimmer of The Men's Warehouse is THE MAN! See Link Below.



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