SUPPORT FILMTRACKS! CLICK HERE FIRST:
Amazon.com
Amazon.co.uk
iTunes (U.S.)
Amazon.ca
Amazon.fr
eBay (U.S.)
Amazon.de
Amazon.es
Half.com
Glisten Effect
Editorial Reviews
Scoreboard Forum
Viewer Ratings
Composers
Awards
   NEWEST MAJOR REVIEWS:
     1. Halloween
    2. Venom
   3. House With a Clock/Walls
  4. The Nun
 5. Crazy Rich Asians
6. The Meg
   CURRENT MOST POPULAR REVIEWS:
         1. Solo: A Star Wars Story
        2. Batman
       3. Jurassic World: Kingdom
      4. The Predator
     5. Edward Scissorhands
    6. Mission: Impossible - Fallout
   7. Christopher Robin
  8. Apollo 13
 9. Ant-Man and the Wasp
10. The Equalizer 2
Home Page
Menu Options ▼
Comments about the soundtrack for The Terminal (John Williams)
Rip Off?

JS Park
<Send E-Mail>
(216-237-196-116-dslam1-hmc.norths
tate.net)


  Responses to this Comment:
MarkL
Jojo
Rip Off?   Wednesday, June 16, 2004 (5:55 p.m.) 

A Happy Navorski Ending sounds like "As Good as it Gets" theme, I am NO Hanz Zimmer fan but I do like that score. Well I know I will get bashed for comparing Hanz Zimmer to John Williams (the man with the huge ego and is an jerk to other composers) I just think it sounds like a mild reworking...

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


MarkL
(pcp01155798pcs.newhav01.mi.comcas
t.net)

  In Response to:
JS Park

  Responses to this Comment:
Pawel Stroinski
Re: Rip Off?   Wednesday, June 16, 2004 (11:27 p.m.) 

> A Happy Navorski Ending sounds like "As Good as it Gets" theme,
> I am NO Hanz Zimmer fan but I do like that score. Well I know I will get
> bashed for comparing Hanz Zimmer to John Williams (the man with the huge
> ego and is an jerk to other composers) I just think it sounds like a mild
> reworking...

I'm not a huge Zimmer fan either and I love Williams, but I could not help thinking the same thing. It does sound like "As Good As It Gets".

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Pawel Stroinski
<Send E-Mail>
(ckv119.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
Profile Picture
  In Response to:
MarkL

  Responses to this Comment:
Roman Dlouhý
Re: Rip Off?   Saturday, June 19, 2004 (3:42 p.m.) 

> I'm not a huge Zimmer fan either and I love Williams, but I could not help
> thinking the same thing. It does sound like "As Good As It
> Gets".

And A Dinner with Amelia too.

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Roman Dlouhý
(ns.rb.cz)

  In Response to:
Pawel Stroinski

  Responses to this Comment:
Pawel Stroinski
Re: Rip Off?   Sunday, June 20, 2004 (11:06 p.m.) 

You guys should give a few listens to W. A. Mozart's work cataloged as no. 622 and then come back and think about the rip-off comment again, that is "who ripped who". If you want to criticize, you should come to classes better prepared.


Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Pawel Stroinski
<Send E-Mail>
(cjp87.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
Profile Picture
  In Response to:
Roman Dlouhý

  Responses to this Comment:
Musica42
Re: Rip Off?   Monday, June 21, 2004 (10:32 a.m.) 

> You guys should give a few listens to W. A. Mozart's work cataloged as no.
> 622 and then come back and think about the rip-off comment again, that is
> "who ripped who". If you want to criticize, you should come to
> classes better prepared.

I know Zimmer rips Mozart in his romantic comedies, but if it comes to film scores, Zimmer was first to note that Mozart's style fits the genre. In fact when I gave Zimmer's Nine Months to my pal one day he told me the score was written by Mozart not Zimmer and he rather liked it, even though he disliked the Clarinet Concerto Zimmer modelled on. Zimmer does credit the composers he models on/rips off from, but not on his CD. He talks about it widely in his interviews

Pawel

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Musica42
<Send E-Mail>
(adsl-66-143-252-118.dsl.snantx.sw
bell.net)

  In Response to:
Pawel Stroinski

  Responses to this Comment:
Scara
SRP
Pawel Stroinski
Ken Applegate
My take on rip offs, Zimmer clichés and reading music   Wednesday, June 23, 2004 (9:26 p.m.) 

I just snagged a quick listen to some of Zimmer's As Good as it Gets score and I hear what people here are saying. But I think it’s nigh retarded to think Williams went and listened to Zimmer's score and decided to rip Zimmer off. Personally I can hear the "similarity" but the two are very different, as different as the two composers involved. It's just that minor key European romantic music with the accordion, clarinet, bass, etc that's been used for decades in one film after another. Neither Williams or Zimmer invented that style but both felt that kind of music was appropriate for their respective films. It's as simple as that.

Also I think its a shame that people are blaming everything that comes out of Media Ventures on Zimmer. Sure Zimmer is the one that first created the sound, but he isn't the one that made that sound a cliché; it’s the other guys and various other unoriginal bastards in the film composing community whom we can thank for that. For instance, Gladiator was a totally fresh and well-received score when it came out. But damn if I haven't heard that "gladiator sound" in just about every other movie trailer I sit through now. And that certainly isn't Zimmer's fault, is it? Personally I think Zimmer is a remarkably talented composer/sound engineer and I think he single-handedly changed the sound of action scores in the last decade or two. Not to mention how many great themes he's created since he began.

And another thing, I think its just snobbery that people think if a composer can't read music he's somehow a lesser musician. I think that's total bunk. It in no way implies disrespect for one's craft. It's as ludicrous as saying a brilliant poet who can't read or write is a lesser poet somehow. Are the words somehow less meaningful because they're not written down somewhere?

Music is not notes on a page. Music is a phenomenon that lives in the realm of sound and time; notation is just a cold written recording. If one can manage a path to music that doesn't require mucking about with notes, then by all means do so. After all, notation came way after the creation of music. Zimmer has a brilliant ear and he creates amazing music with it. As for Elfman, sheesh, he just learned to notate music to speed up the process - not because he felt like a lesser musician not knowing how. Anyway, history is replete with amazing musicians who couldn't read music, particularly in the realm of popular music. Example, Irving Berlin managed to go through his entire career without learning to read or notate music, yet look at his body of work.


Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Scara
<Send E-Mail>
(187.145-201-80.adsl.skynet.be)

  In Response to:
Musica42
Re: My take on rip offs, Zimmer clichés and reading music   Wednesday, June 30, 2004 (10:37 a.m.) 

> I just snagged a quick listen to some of Zimmer's As Good as it Gets score
> and I hear what people here are saying. But I think it’s nigh retarded to
> think Williams went and listened to Zimmer's score and decided to rip
> Zimmer off. Personally I can hear the "similarity" but the two
> are very different, as different as the two composers involved. It's just
> that minor key European romantic music with the accordion, clarinet, bass,
> etc that's been used for decades in one film after another. Neither
> Williams or Zimmer invented that style but both felt that kind of music
> was appropriate for their respective films. It's as simple as that.

> Also I think its a shame that people are blaming everything that comes out
> of Media Ventures on Zimmer. Sure Zimmer is the one that first created the
> sound, but he isn't the one that made that sound a cliché; it’s the other
> guys and various other unoriginal bastards in the film composing community
> whom we can thank for that. For instance, Gladiator was a totally fresh
> and well-received score when it came out. But damn if I haven't heard that
> "gladiator sound" in just about every other movie trailer I sit
> through now. And that certainly isn't Zimmer's fault, is it? Personally I
> think Zimmer is a remarkably talented composer/sound engineer and I think
> he single-handedly changed the sound of action scores in the last decade
> or two. Not to mention how many great themes he's created since he began.

> And another thing, I think its just snobbery that people think if a
> composer can't read music he's somehow a lesser musician. I think that's
> total bunk. It in no way implies disrespect for one's craft. It's as
> ludicrous as saying a brilliant poet who can't read or write is a lesser
> poet somehow. Are the words somehow less meaningful because they're not
> written down somewhere?

> Music is not notes on a page. Music is a phenomenon that lives in the
> realm of sound and time; notation is just a cold written recording. If one
> can manage a path to music that doesn't require mucking about with notes,
> then by all means do so. After all, notation came way after the creation
> of music. Zimmer has a brilliant ear and he creates amazing music with it.
> As for Elfman, sheesh, he just learned to notate music to speed up the
> process - not because he felt like a lesser musician not knowing how.
> Anyway, history is replete with amazing musicians who couldn't read music,
> particularly in the realm of popular music. Example, Irving Berlin managed
> to go through his entire career without learning to read or notate music,
> yet look at his body of work.

*standing ovation*

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


SRP
<Send E-Mail>
(dsl217-132-58-200.bb.netvision.ne
t.il)

  In Response to:
Musica42
Re: My take on rip offs, Zimmer clichés and reading music   Thursday, July 1, 2004 (1:32 a.m.) 

> I just snagged a quick listen to some of Zimmer's As Good as it Gets score
> and I hear what people here are saying. But I think it’s nigh retarded to
> think Williams went and listened to Zimmer's score and decided to rip
> Zimmer off. Personally I can hear the "similarity" but the two
> are very different, as different as the two composers involved. It's just
> that minor key European romantic music with the accordion, clarinet, bass,
> etc that's been used for decades in one film after another. Neither
> Williams or Zimmer invented that style but both felt that kind of music
> was appropriate for their respective films. It's as simple as that.

> Also I think its a shame that people are blaming everything that comes out
> of Media Ventures on Zimmer. Sure Zimmer is the one that first created the
> sound, but he isn't the one that made that sound a cliché; it’s the other
> guys and various other unoriginal bastards in the film composing community
> whom we can thank for that. For instance, Gladiator was a totally fresh
> and well-received score when it came out. But damn if I haven't heard that
> "gladiator sound" in just about every other movie trailer I sit
> through now. And that certainly isn't Zimmer's fault, is it? Personally I
> think Zimmer is a remarkably talented composer/sound engineer and I think
> he single-handedly changed the sound of action scores in the last decade
> or two. Not to mention how many great themes he's created since he began.

> And another thing, I think its just snobbery that people think if a
> composer can't read music he's somehow a lesser musician. I think that's
> total bunk. It in no way implies disrespect for one's craft. It's as
> ludicrous as saying a brilliant poet who can't read or write is a lesser
> poet somehow. Are the words somehow less meaningful because they're not
> written down somewhere?

> Music is not notes on a page. Music is a phenomenon that lives in the
> realm of sound and time; notation is just a cold written recording. If one
> can manage a path to music that doesn't require mucking about with notes,
> then by all means do so. After all, notation came way after the creation
> of music. Zimmer has a brilliant ear and he creates amazing music with it.
> As for Elfman, sheesh, he just learned to notate music to speed up the
> process - not because he felt like a lesser musician not knowing how.
> Anyway, history is replete with amazing musicians who couldn't read music,
> particularly in the realm of popular music. Example, Irving Berlin managed
> to go through his entire career without learning to read or notate music,
> yet look at his body of work.

FINALY! Someone not talking out of their ass.


Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Pawel Stroinski
<Send E-Mail>
(ckq111.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
Profile Picture
  In Response to:
Musica42
Re: My take on rip offs, Zimmer clichés and reading music   Sunday, July 4, 2004 (4:31 p.m.) 

> I just snagged a quick listen to some of Zimmer's As Good as it Gets score
> and I hear what people here are saying. But I think it’s nigh retarded to
> think Williams went and listened to Zimmer's score and decided to rip
> Zimmer off. Personally I can hear the "similarity" but the two
> are very different, as different as the two composers involved. It's just
> that minor key European romantic music with the accordion, clarinet, bass,
> etc that's been used for decades in one film after another. Neither
> Williams or Zimmer invented that style but both felt that kind of music
> was appropriate for their respective films. It's as simple as that.

The tracks we are referring to as the rips are the last and A Dinner with Amelia, the beginning. At last you said it. None of them invented it, but the thing is who was first. And who's the European . Seriously, you are so right .

> Also I think its a shame that people are blaming everything that comes out
> of Media Ventures on Zimmer. Sure Zimmer is the one that first created the
> sound, but he isn't the one that made that sound a cliché; it’s the other
> guys and various other unoriginal bastards in the film composing community
> whom we can thank for that. For instance, Gladiator was a totally fresh
> and well-received score when it came out. But damn if I haven't heard that
> "gladiator sound" in just about every other movie trailer I sit
> through now. And that certainly isn't Zimmer's fault, is it? Personally I
> think Zimmer is a remarkably talented composer/sound engineer and I think
> he single-handedly changed the sound of action scores in the last decade
> or two. Not to mention how many great themes he's created since he began.

Hmm. You can blame Media Ventures, not Zimmer. Zimmer created the sound, they made it cliche and producers, who demanded such music, made it cliche. Zimmer is self-taught, he has no professional background as Elfman does. What people forget when mentioning Zimmer are some scores they perhaps haven't heard of, maybe except The Thin Red Line and The Prince of Egypt, which are actually his best scores.

> And another thing, I think its just snobbery that people think if a
> composer can't read music he's somehow a lesser musician. I think that's
> total bunk. It in no way implies disrespect for one's craft. It's as
> ludicrous as saying a brilliant poet who can't read or write is a lesser
> poet somehow. Are the words somehow less meaningful because they're not
> written down somewhere?

Yep. Homer wasn't an awful poet, because he couldn't write and he couldn't. One of the reasons is he was blind. And who implied Zimmer doesn't know notes or anybody doesn't? Most of film score composers happen to have professional background, some of them perhaps took even film scoring classes (held by the likes of Christopher Young). Back to words, words said, not written, are somehow more meaningful, because, to their own message, they add some of the teller's (sayer's? ), personality.

> Music is not notes on a page. Music is a phenomenon that lives in the
> realm of sound and time; notation is just a cold written recording. If one
> can manage a path to music that doesn't require mucking about with notes,
> then by all means do so. After all, notation came way after the creation
> of music. Zimmer has a brilliant ear and he creates amazing music with it.
> As for Elfman, sheesh, he just learned to notate music to speed up the
> process - not because he felt like a lesser musician not knowing how.
> Anyway, history is replete with amazing musicians who couldn't read music,
> particularly in the realm of popular music. Example, Irving Berlin managed
> to go through his entire career without learning to read or notate music,
> yet look at his body of work.

Music is not notes on a page. I do agree. Music is emotions, saying that on a basic level. You won't say with music more than emotion. You can only give importance and that is the why does it work in films, giving the message a boost maybe. I recently came to the conclusion that the way music works in film isn't about melody or being interesting. It is convincing. With music composer has to convince the audience to the world presented in the movie. That's all. Just convincing the audience, some of listeners do forget it. A film composer is more of a psychologist than a composer. He uses cliches (solo trumpet=army), harmony (consonant=safe, dissonant = insecure, atonal = chaotic), scale, all his knowledge to convey specific emotions. He uses his intelligence and sensitivity to note the most important aspect of the movie and concentrate on it. Film music is one of the most eclectic genres ever. It is neither popular music or classical music. The problem is that it is between those genres. You may add jazz to classical music, rock to classical music, blues, anything if it works (recently, we need to unfortunately add financial profit to it). If it works, you may take even an one-note synth score. This is film music. If it fits the emotions, it works. If it works, it's in the film. The question is, are film composers outstanding talents? Yes they are. Even more, they are often overrated. You will never know their technique to the end, so they are said to be lesser than others.

Pawel

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Ken Applegate
<Send E-Mail>
(lsanca1-ar13-4-60-135-085.lsanca1
.dsl-verizon.net)

  In Response to:
Musica42

  Responses to this Comment:
Musica42
Re: My take on rip offs, Zimmer clichés and reading music   Tuesday, July 6, 2004 (12:48 a.m.) 

Very valid points in your posts, but I think I see some weakness in these areas.

"I think its just snobbery that people think if a composer can't read music he's somehow a lesser musician. I think that's total bunk."

I hate to ask you.... but if Hans Zimmer were a tubist, would he be able to play John Williams's Tuba Concerto? The Gregson Concerto? How about the Vaghan Williams Concerto which is the cornerstone of our rep? No. Not if he couldn't read music. Yes, it does make him a lesser musician. Does it make his ideas any more or less valid? No. That is not what I typed.

"And another thing, It in no way implies disrespect for one's craft. It's as
ludicrous as saying a brilliant poet who can't read or write is a lesser
poet somehow."

Great, you are comparing writing words to writing music which is a whole different ball game. The only thing that can make words sound great or horrible, is the voice of the one reading those words. Hans just plunks out a tune, and puts the rest of it in someone else's hands, and that's all he has to do with it. Somebody else can easily take his ideas and turn them upside down and make him look stupid and he wouldn't know anything about it until it was all over and he was ruined (or slammed with another bad review, God forbid). Now, if he gets in a jam one of these days, and he doesn't have his thirty "media ventures" composers and orchestrators to bail his butt out, it would help him a great deal to know the basics of the field that has kept food on his table for quite some time. The fact that he doesn't even know what most musicians learn in the 5'th grade, is the very basic root of disrespect towards his field. Not knowing how to complete your work without somebody there to say "Oh, it's alright. I'll just do the majority of the work for you. No problem." What can be more disrespectful than that?

"Are the words somehow less meaningful because they're not
written down somewhere?"

Actually, they have the potential to be. I mean, they can mean a whole lotta nothing to the people who aren't exposed to the words because some idiot decided he needed to keep a great story for himself. When he dies, the story goes with him. Then it means nothing.

About your example of a great writer, we don't know if the words that Homer dictated to his copyists are his actual words, or his transcribers opinions of what they should be. He could just as easily have done like Zimmer and given somebody who was a thousand times the writer he was an outline and had this other individual fill in the rest. Is this fact? No. Is it within the realm of possibilty?? Absolutely.

Also, if he was blind, then your example is out of context. Zimmer is neither blind, nor deaf. And even Beethoven could turn out a pretty good tune without being able to hear. After that, you have the fact that the musical language is drilled into you maybe one one-millionth as much as your native language. Not always the reading and writing, but the speaking. So, we have mastered the part of our language that is essential for communicating what you want to communicate and doing it completely. You see how only 1 of 3 fields in language is needed to communicate properly, as opposed to music where you really need to be able to do more than play a keyboard. I realize, he has a large body of work played on whatever it is he plays and taken by his employees and made into something more real, but he is supposed to be a composer. He needs to know how to compose.



Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Musica42
<Send E-Mail>
(adsl-66-136-62-192.dsl.snantx.swb
ell.net)

  In Response to:
Ken Applegate

  Responses to this Comment:
Ken Applegate
Re: My take on rip offs, Zimmer clichés and reading music   Tuesday, July 6, 2004 (11:11 p.m.) 

> I hate to ask you.... but if Hans Zimmer were a tubist, would he be able
> to play John Williams's Tuba Concerto? The Gregson Concerto? How about the
> Vaghan Williams Concerto which is the cornerstone of our rep? No. Not if
> he couldn't read music. Yes, it does make him a lesser musician. Does it
> make his ideas any more or less valid? No. That is not what I typed.

That's a good argument but unfortunately the inverse would also be true. What if the tubist was Hans Zimmer? Would he be able to effectively compose music for film? No. Not if he, like the vast majority of performers I've come across, couldn't compose music worth a damn. Wouldn't that imply then that he as well as all people who only know parts of their craft were lesser musicians? Or would that merely imply that all musicians have a different set of skills that more or less apply to what it is they specifically do in the music field? Zimmer is a composer; the hypothetical tuba player is a performer. Each profession by definition is proficient at completely different things (ignoring the performing composer), yet each is considered a musician even though each lacks many skills necessary for the opposite profession.

> Great, you are comparing writing words to writing music which is a whole
> different ball game. The only thing that can make words sound great or
> horrible, is the voice of the one reading those words.

Sound isn't the medium of words though, concepts and meaning are (forgive the simplification). My point merely was that whether these words are written down or not doesn't affect their meaning. Likewise, whether or not music is written down doesn't affect its meaning either.

> Hans just plunks
> out a tune, and puts the rest of it in someone else's hands, and that's
> all he has to do with it. Somebody else can easily take his ideas and turn
> them upside down and make him look stupid and he wouldn't know anything
> about it until it was all over and he was ruined (or slammed with another
> bad review, God forbid). Now, if he gets in a jam one of these days, and
> he doesn't have his thirty "media ventures" composers and
> orchestrators to bail his butt out, it would help him a great deal to know
> the basics of the field that has kept food on his table for quite some
> time. The fact that he doesn't even know what most musicians learn in the
> 5'th grade, is the very basic root of disrespect towards his field. Not
> knowing how to complete your work without somebody there to say "Oh,
> it's alright. I'll just do the majority of the work for you. No
> problem." What can be more disrespectful than that?

So I have to ask where in the hell you got this information? Hans Zimmer doesn't plunk out tunes then send it on down the assembly line. There are plenty of examples of scores he's done completely by himself (within reason of course), and I think this media ventures composer thing is being blown ridiculously out of proportion. Sure he gets help, but then so does everyone else. Hate to burst your bubble but it’s a rare thing for a film composer to fly solo these days. Everyone has their team of copyists, orchestraters, and assortment of helpers etc, etc. Various composers make different uses of these guys but they all have them, particularly the big dogs in Hollywood.

> Actually, they have the potential to be. I mean, they can mean a whole
> lotta nothing to the people who aren't exposed to the words because some
> idiot decided he needed to keep a great story for himself. When he dies,
> the story goes with him. Then it means nothing.

That is unless the book on tape edition is released

> About your example of a great writer, we don't know if the words that
> Homer dictated to his copyists are his actual words, or his transcribers
> opinions of what they should be. He could just as easily have done like
> Zimmer and given somebody who was a thousand times the writer he was an
> outline and had this other individual fill in the rest. Is this fact? No.
> Is it within the realm of possibilty?? Absolutely.

First I didn't mention Homer, someone else did. But again you're assuming that someone else is writing Zimmer's music. I'm not going to deny that there's a great deal of "ghost writing" going on over at Media Ventures, but this is a common practice all across the map. Zimmer just isn't the anti-composer you're making him out to be.

> Also, if he was blind, then your example is out of context. Zimmer is
> neither blind, nor deaf. And even Beethoven could turn out a pretty good
> tune without being able to hear. After that, you have the fact that the
> musical language is drilled into you maybe one one-millionth as much as
> your native language. Not always the reading and writing, but the
> speaking. So, we have mastered the part of our language that is essential
> for communicating what you want to communicate and doing it completely.
> You see how only 1 of 3 fields in language is needed to communicate
> properly, as opposed to music where you really need to be able to do more
> than play a keyboard.

Again I didn't mention Homer, but what the hell. Pay attention to the world around you a bit more and you just might discover there's a far more music flying around the air than you think. Granted your totally right in we get music less than language and we understand the former far less than the latter. But I disagree with that last point. Christ have ever heard a great piano player throwing down his soul onto those keys?! If that isn't communicating than I don't know what is...

> I realize, he has a large body of work played on
> whatever it is he plays and taken by his employees and made into something
> more real, but he is supposed to be a composer. He needs to know how to
> compose.

The guy does know how to compose, it's just his medium is mostly electronics as opposed to the more traditional orchestral palette. Rather than knowing how to arrange for an orchestra, he knows how to compose for synthesizers, samplers, and electronics. This takes different skills than composing for orchestra but takes plenty of skill nonetheless. And he's a total whiz with electronics. Granted he uses live orchestra in nearly every score he does, and only then does his helpers pop out of the woodwork and do the boring work of brain dead copy/pasting, checking ranges and playability, etc, etc for him. I know I'm simplifying things ridiculously and for that I apologize, but give the guy a little more credit.

Anyway, you seem like a smart guy who thinks this kind of stuff through so I don't see much point in trying to convert you to the way I think or whatever. You've got plenty of valid points and a few less than valid ones, which I'm more than positive is the case with myself as well. Fact is I enjoy and respect Zimmer and hate to see misconceptions about his work practices propagated. Just check your facts please and don't believe everything you read. Least of all anything you read from me

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Ken Applegate
<Send E-Mail>
(lsanca1-ar13-4-60-135-085.lsanca1
.dsl-verizon.net)

  In Response to:
Musica42

  Responses to this Comment:
Musica42
Re: My take on rip offs, Zimmer clichés and reading music   Wednesday, July 7, 2004 (12:09 a.m.) 

Okay, I will first thank you for clearing up some misconceptions of mine. The last that I'd heard, Zimmer didn't know how to read music, but you have apparently seen his own work on paper, so I will take your word for that. I also totally know that film scorers routinely get help. That is just a fact of the business that I understand and accept. I in no way would expect Mr. Zimmer to "fly solo". That would be beyond unreasonable. There are a couple of responces in this post that I would like to address because I might have done a bad job communicating what you were responding to. I'll try to not write half a bible this time.

"That's a good argument but unfortunately the inverse would also be true.
What if the tubist was Hans Zimmer? Would he be able to effectively
compose music for film? No."

Unfortunately, that is not always true. Case-In-Point: Jim Self (who recently played the finale of John's Concerto with the Pacific Symphony). The man is a tubist who can compose. I also am a tubist who can compose. Can we compose music for film?? Of course we can. If we can compose, we can write a film score (after a course in the finer points, which I think Jim wouldn't need since he's been in that environment for several decades.) Also, performance is a craft all its own. Composition is a craft all its own, but the two are joined by the common factor of music. To say that a composer who knows what he needs to know only knows part of his craft would be wrong. The same applies to the performer. He or she practices as much as they need to, perform to the level that they are required to and just do what they are supposed to do. That is a person who knows their craft. And I think you typed that in a much less complex manor, so I'll just stop with this now.

"Zimmer is a composer; the hypothetical tuba player is a performer."

I was under the impression that Zimmer had to perform in order to get his ideas to somebody who could write it down properly. Something that has been cleared up.

"My point merely was that whether these words are
written down or not doesn't affect their meaning."

The only thing that I was trying to say (and did a poor job of it) was that the words would end up meaning nothing to anybody but the one who thought of them if proper steps were not taken to preserve those words. The music that we are talking about has been copied, written down, and heard by the public who goes to movies that Zimmer composes music for. I think that point can take the not writing argument right out the door (once again, that's an I think.) It also opens the music up to millions of interpretations and can result in millions of meanings being found. I know the only one that should count is the meaning originally given to it, but that is rarely the case. I guess it's just that things mean so much more when it's written.

"I think this media ventures composer thing is being blown ridiculously out of proportion."

Yes, I admit that my "30 composers" reference was a gross exaggeration.

Sorry about bringing Homer into things. I thought that you had made the reference, but I forgot that thinking just gets me into trouble. So, whoopsie.

"Christ have (you) ever heard a great piano player throwing down his soul onto those keys?! If that isn't communicating than I don't know what is..."

Perfect example. The thing is, I would actually have more respect for somebody who could play the Rochy concerti without being able to read music than a guy who composes and doesn't know how to read (once again, a subject that has been cleared up.) Why?? Playing pieces that complex by ear... How much more musicianship can you squeeze into one person???? If you can do that, you can do anything. And there is the case of just the natural who doesn't need to know the basics in order to communicate.
Also, performance involves... direct communication? I mean, being in front of the audience that you are communicating with while you are doing it. People generally don't say how moved they were when they were in the same room with a composer who was writing. They tend to talk about the performance,. Do you see what I am saying?? If not, I'll try to clear it up at a later time.

"I know I'm simplifying things ridiculously and for that I apologize, but give the guy a little more credit."

Believe me, being a tuba player, I like simple. I was honestly never aware of Zimmer's background in electronics. That is pretty cool. One more good thing to know about him.

"Anyway, you seem like a smart guy who thinks this kind of stuff through so
I don't see much point in trying to convert you to the way I think or
whatever."

Thanks very much for the compliments. I see that you are not trying to alter my thinking just to match yours. There would be no real point in that. You are just trying to alter my thinking with more up to date facts that were not in my possession. Thanks for that. You also seem like a smart guy and I look forward to discussing things with you in the future.

"You've got plenty of valid points and a few less than valid
ones, which I'm more than positive is the case with myself as well."

Most people have a balance of a smaller amount of bad rather than a smaller amount of good. Good thing too. Otherwise the human race would be an unwinable one. I have found no real negatives on your part in this thread. You have just gone up to bat for somebody who couldn't. It's darned noble.

"Fact is I enjoy and respect Zimmer and hate to see misconceptions about his
work practices propagated. Just check your facts please and don't believe
everything you read. Least of all anything you read from me "

Don't worry; it's usually pretty hard to fool me. I'm shure that the people who told me that he didn't know how to read heard that fact from a credible source (or a really good liar.) They spoke about it as though they could be certain that it was true which is why I put such stake in it. I do, as a result of this conversation, have more respect for the man, but unfortunately, I still don't much care for his work. Just not my bucket of ice.

Well.... so much for not writing another post of biblical proportions,

Ken Applegate



Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Musica42
<Send E-Mail>
(adsl-66-136-62-192.dsl.snantx.swb
ell.net)

  In Response to:
Ken Applegate
Re: My take on rip offs, Zimmer clichés and reading music   Wednesday, July 7, 2004 (8:36 p.m.) 

Good to know there's still a person or two out there that can handle a civilized argument without throwing the usually requisite hissy-fit. I agree with everything you say (except of course on the topic of disliking Zimmer, but to each his own ) And it's nice to see my pursuasive powers are slightly better than I remember them to be

Part of me would enjoy a nice long discourse about what it means to be a musician, but the other part of me says to quit thinking like an academic twit and just enjoy music and those who make it. So perhaps with a little more coaxing I might break out of my shell and actually act like the nerd I am.

> Unfortunately, that is not always true. Case-In-Point: Jim Self (who
> recently played the finale of John's Concerto with the Pacific Symphony).
> The man is a tubist who can compose. I also am a tubist who can compose.
> Can we compose music for film?? Of course we can. If we can compose, we
> can write a film score (after a course in the finer points, which I think
> Jim wouldn't need since he's been in that environment for several
> decades.) Also, performance is a craft all its own. Composition is a craft
> all its own, but the two are joined by the common factor of music. To say
> that a composer who knows what he needs to know only knows part of his
> craft would be wrong. The same applies to the performer. He or she
> practices as much as they need to, perform to the level that they are
> required to and just do what they are supposed to do. That is a person who
> knows their craft. And I think you typed that in a much less complex
> manor, so I'll just stop with this now.

I'm starting to yield my position in light of your words. A composer composes, a performer performs, yes? But each profession certainly bleeds into the other. Composers know how to play various assortments of instruments (some to amazing ability), and performers (atleast those inclined to do so) can be exceedingly gifted composers as well. So I just don't see why so-and-so has to be considered a better musician than so-and-so. But I've been embarrassingly wrong before

Anwyay, its been a pleasure.

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Jojo
(108.120-201-80.adsl.skynet.be)

  In Response to:
JS Park

  Responses to this Comment:
JS Park
Ken Applegate
Re: Rip Off?   Thursday, June 17, 2004 (12:44 a.m.) 

> A Happy Navorski Ending sounds like "As Good as it Gets" theme,
> I am NO Hanz Zimmer fan but I do like that score. Well I know I will get
> bashed for comparing Hanz Zimmer to John Williams (the man with the huge
> ego and is an jerk to other composers) I just think it sounds like a mild
> reworking...

As far as I know, Williams is a very friendly, humble and intelligent man. Always in for a chat! Some composers do have a reputation. ( but not williams!!! )Such as morricone or JOhn Barry... they are known for their tempre, but also for incredible beautiful music! let's focus on that!!! So far ego's... But where on earth do you get the idea that Williams is a jerk to fellow composers ( he has a perfect understanding - yes, even friendship - with composers such as Goldsmith, Thomas Newman to name a few ) From your part, it shows a lack of respect for his great talent. And it would be an insult for any other composer ( zimmer, horner, etc.... ) If you want it or not! Williams IS part of filmmusic-history with an incredible body of work!!! And we should be thankfull and gratefull for that, instead of just being short sited!

Greetz Jojo


Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


JS Park
<Send E-Mail>
(216-237-196-116-dslam1-hmc.norths
tate.net)

  In Response to:
Jojo

  Responses to this Comment:
CS^TBL
Jojo
Re: Rip Off?   Friday, June 18, 2004 (4:08 p.m.) 

> As far as I know, Williams is a very friendly, humble and intelligent man.
> Always in for a chat! Some composers do have a reputation. ( but not
> williams!!! )Such as morricone or JOhn Barry... they are known for their
> tempre, but also for incredible beautiful music! let's focus on that!!! So
> far ego's... But where on earth do you get the idea that Williams is a
> jerk to fellow composers ( he has a perfect understanding - yes, even
> friendship - with composers such as Goldsmith, Thomas Newman to name a few
> ) From your part, it shows a lack of respect for his great talent. And it
> would be an insult for any other composer ( zimmer, horner, etc.... ) If
> you want it or not! Williams IS part of filmmusic-history with an
> incredible body of work!!! And we should be thankfull and gratefull for
> that, instead of just being short sited!

> Greetz Jojo

Christian put this down himself (this is a Williams Quote) "he claimed that he wasn't so much concerned with the many Oscars he's won as much as all those he's lost over the years to other composers". Now that sounds rather arrogant to me...I am sorry but my ears are trained for other types of music. I aknowladge that he is a fantastic composer and I do like several of his scores but I do also accept that there are many other fantastic composers! Williams is by far not my favorite but I do know he is very very good....People just focus far to much on him and ignore everyone else so yeah...thats the problem I have

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


CS^TBL
(ip9135f70e.speed.planet.nl)

  In Response to:
JS Park
composers *are* typical   Monday, June 21, 2004 (12:26 a.m.) 

Don't worry, composers working on big projects can have big egos, it's perfectly normal. Well, let's say that it doesn't *have* to be like that, but it's not 'strange'.

It's -as a composer- basically all about caring about your product.. striving for perfection, even if others must suffer

Besides, if there's an ego, it's most of the time generated by the audience who keeps praising a composer.

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Jojo
(224.75-200-80.adsl.skynet.be)

  In Response to:
JS Park
Re: Rip Off?   Sunday, June 27, 2004 (11:40 p.m.) 

> Christian put this down himself (this is a Williams Quote) "he
> claimed that he wasn't so much concerned with the many Oscars he's won as
> much as all those he's lost over the years to other composers". Now
> that sounds rather arrogant to me...I am sorry but my ears are trained for
> other types of music. I aknowladge that he is a fantastic composer and I
> do like several of his scores but I do also accept that there are many
> other fantastic composers! Williams is by far not my favorite but I do
> know he is very very good....People just focus far to much on him and
> ignore everyone else so yeah...thats the problem I have

I think it would be rather arrogant from any composer to say that it does bother him that he didn't won every oscar he/she was nominated for... I think it is a modest statement in the vain of zimmer: "you win some, you loose some..." Oh by the way, if people focus to much on Williams it's because they love his music and prefer him above a lot of other composers. And yes, i'm one of those people. But I buy and enjoy other composers just as much. composers as zimmer, horner, doyle, goldenthal, portman, newton howard, preisner, coulais, yared,... but as for williams, I buy his albums without a preview listen, because i know it s gonna be good if not, fantastic! And so far, he never failed me!!! greetz Jojo

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Ken Applegate
<Send E-Mail>
(lsanca1-ar13-4-60-135-085.lsanca1
.dsl-verizon.net)

  In Response to:
Jojo

  Responses to this Comment:
CS^TBL
FREAK
FREAK
Re: Rip Off?   Monday, June 21, 2004 (11:04 p.m.) 

I think that he might have worded that statement incorrectly. I think that he meant to say that Hanz Zimmer (Whom' I'm guessing learned his self-plagiarist stuck up ways from James Horner) is the one who is the jerk. I am sorry to those Zimmer and Horner fans out there, but I just can't see favoring a composer who doesn't seem to mind writing nothing but somebody else’s music, or the same licks over and over again (and how the directors put up with them, God only knows). After a while it becomes a regurgitation instead of a soundtrack. I can’t help but keep track of how many different movies the Iceberg Scene from Titanic was in just to try and figure out how much money Horner made by being a lazy composer. And then there’s Zimmer. I mean, he doesn’t even know how to read music. He doesn’t know his craft and as far as I know, he has no respect for his craft. Even Danny Elfman took the time to learn how to do these things in order to write for Tim Burton, and he’s grown into one of the best film scorers around. Now, Horner and Zimmer do have some good days, I'll grant them that. But, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn now and then.

> As far as I know, Williams is a very friendly, humble and intelligent man.
> Always in for a chat! Some composers do have a reputation. ( but not
> williams!!! )Such as morricone or JOhn Barry... they are known for their
> tempre, but also for incredible beautiful music! let's focus on that!!! So
> far ego's... But where on earth do you get the idea that Williams is a
> jerk to fellow composers ( he has a perfect understanding - yes, even
> friendship - with composers such as Goldsmith, Thomas Newman to name a few
> ) From your part, it shows a lack of respect for his great talent. And it
> would be an insult for any other composer ( zimmer, horner, etc.... ) If
> you want it or not! Williams IS part of filmmusic-history with an
> incredible body of work!!! And we should be thankfull and gratefull for
> that, instead of just being short sited!

> Greetz Jojo


Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


CS^TBL
(ip9135f70e.speed.planet.nl)

  In Response to:
Ken Applegate

  Responses to this Comment:
Mike James
Re: Rip Off?   Tuesday, June 22, 2004 (1:17 a.m.) 

What can I say...: Francis Lai played some melody on his melodica, while he sat next to orchestrators and arrangers who realised the actual music.. The man won an oscar for The Love Story .. ahyes.. where are the days that one person does everything... composing, arranging, orchestrating .. ?

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Mike James
(adsl-70-240-195-146.dsl.hstntx.sw
bell.net)

  In Response to:
CS^TBL
Re: Rip Off?   Friday, July 16, 2004 (10:37 p.m.) 

> What can I say...: Francis Lai played some melody on his melodica, while
> he sat next to orchestrators and arrangers who realised the actual music..
> The man won an oscar for The Love Story .. ahyes.. where are the days that
> one person does everything... composing, arranging, orchestrating .. ?

You mean the days when one person would employ multiple ghostwriters and take the credit to himself? Mmmm... yes, those were indeed the days.

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


FREAK
(catv-d5debe34.catv.broadband.hu)

  In Response to:
Ken Applegate

  Responses to this Comment:
Ken Applegate
It's HanS Zimmer ...   Wednesday, June 23, 2004 (10:40 a.m.) 

It does matter if your name is Tucker or #####er in my oppinion. Btw. The track really sounds like As Good As It Gets, the question is: so what?

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Ken Applegate
<Send E-Mail>
(66-215-28-56.nwk-mres.charterpipe
line.net)

  In Response to:
FREAK

  Responses to this Comment:
FREAK
Re: It's HanS Zimmer ...   Thursday, July 1, 2004 (8:35 a.m.) 

Why don't you try typing something in context when you debate me on how important the spelling of a name is. You are talking about someone making a major mistake that nobody would make if it weren't on purpose or the typist was totally ignorant. I didn't screw his name up on purpose, that's not something that I like doing unless I'm joking about a name with my buddies. Besides, the intentional f****** up of the first letter of a last name and the accidental missuse of the last letter in a last name is by leaps and bounds different. I mean, is the difference between Hans and Hanz the difference between Tucker and you know what?? NO! F****** DUHH!!

I mean, shure, I see his name on the screen all the darn time, but the only thing that I realize when I see it is "Oh great, her we go again. Another damned Zimmer score." I really don't pay attention to the unusual spelling of his first name. I've honestly never seen that perticular German name spelled with an "S" on the end before. Not very many people have seen a HanS outside of Zimmer.

So, without further eloquence, Piss Off.

> It does matter if your name is Tucker or #####er in my oppinion. Btw. The
> track really sounds like As Good As It Gets, the question is: so what?


Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


FREAK
(catv-d5debe34.catv.broadband.hu)

  In Response to:
Ken Applegate

  Responses to this Comment:
Ken Applegate
Re: It's HanS Zimmer ...   Friday, July 2, 2004 (10:21 a.m.) 

Calm down pal, do not take unimportant things too seriously ...
I mean, for you I am just an asshole stranger, you shouldn't take time from your life to tell me to tuck off ...
fake care

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Ken Applegate
<Send E-Mail>
(lsanca1-ar13-4-60-135-085.lsanca1
.dsl-verizon.net)

  In Response to:
FREAK

  Responses to this Comment:
FREAK
Good one   Friday, July 2, 2004 (10:49 a.m.) 

Don't you worry. I don't get truly riled up about this online stuff. And you're not just an asshole stranger, either. You're just a stranger who happened to act like one. Don't go tuckin' off anywhere.

Fake care to you too.

> Calm down pal, do not take unimportant things too seriously ...
I
> mean, for you I am just an asshole stranger, you shouldn't take time from
> your life to tell me to tuck off ...
fake care


Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


FREAK
(catv-d5debe34.catv.broadband.hu)

  In Response to:
Ken Applegate
If we continue this way ...   Saturday, July 3, 2004 (8:51 a.m.) 

we will finally become pals ...

your tucker

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


FREAK
(catv-d5debe34.catv.broadband.hu)

  In Response to:
Ken Applegate

  Responses to this Comment:
Ken Applegate
One more mistake ...   Saturday, July 3, 2004 (9:15 a.m.) 

Zimmer is a jerk ... Well, this is disrespectful (I start to feel being your mommy). He is still the guy who did rain man, lion king, crimson tide, prince of egypt, thin red line, black hawk down, as good as it gets, hannibal etc. and I am not telling this because I am his lawyer or anything just because you should think about it twice before telling that he's a self-tucker. (and in this case 't' is not an 'f' but an 's')

"And then there’s Zimmer. I mean, he doesn’t even know how to read music."

Pal so you are saying you cant be a good driver if you dont know how your car's motor works ...
I am a composer myself, and I cant read music either, it's not an advantage and it's not a disadvantage, it's just a fact.

still your pal

Freak


Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Ken Applegate
<Send E-Mail>
(lsanca1-ar13-4-60-135-085.lsanca1
.dsl-verizon.net)

  In Response to:
FREAK

  Responses to this Comment:
FREAK
Well yes, but   Tuesday, July 6, 2004 (12:06 a.m.) 

Hey Pal,

First off, I wasn't the one that who said that Zimmer is a jerk. What I was intending to say was that I think that a previous poster was misinterpreted as having said that John Williams is the jerk, and that given what I'd heard about the two composers, that was a much less likely scenario than John Williams being a Jerk (funny how words just come into focus later on down the line). I never meant to state that "Zimmer is a Jerk" as fact, and if I did, it was in error. I was only relaying what I have heard about him.

And, as far as the whole knowing your motor thing, the difference between a championship driver and one that barely qualifies for the same race can easily be determined by how much the driver knows about the inner workings of his car. Does this mean that Hans will be a better composer if he can read music? Not necessarily. But, I think that it would show so much more respect to his field (which, I believe, is a field that deserves respect) to learn how to read. He's obviously got enough money to take some time off and learn, but whatever. And no, I am not saying that you have to learn to read music as well. The difference in that situation is that Hans Zimmer is... one of the most frequently hired composers in the game, and should probably think about what kind of example he is setting for the people who want to play. Like a baseball player who is more concerned with his Pepsi endorsement falling through than the fact that he is batting clean up and hitting .221 with 3 home runs at the all-star break. If you want to compose without being able to read, that's great. I like that you write. Just think about the kind of example that you would be setting if somebody offers you a job that would make you a public figure. Then, I would suggest going out there and learning how to read. Who knows? It might save your bacon one of these days.

All the best,

Ken Applegate

> Zimmer is a jerk ... Well, this is disrespectful (I start to feel being
> your mommy). He is still the guy who did rain man, lion king, crimson
> tide, prince of egypt, thin red line, black hawk down, as good as it gets,
> hannibal etc. and I am not telling this because I am his lawyer or
> anything just because you should think about it twice before telling that
> he's a self-tucker. (and in this case 't' is not an 'f' but an 's')

> "And then there’s Zimmer. I mean, he doesn’t even know how to read
> music."

> Pal so you are saying you cant be a good driver if you dont know how your
> car's motor works ...
I am a composer myself, and I cant read music
> either, it's not an advantage and it's not a disadvantage, it's just a
> fact.

> still your pal

> Freak


Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


FREAK
(catv-d5debe34.catv.broadband.hu)

  In Response to:
Ken Applegate

  Responses to this Comment:
Ken Applegate
Re: Well yes, but   Thursday, July 8, 2004 (2:17 p.m.) 

> Hey Pal,

Hey hey

> First off, I wasn't the one that who said that Zimmer is a jerk.

Nice news pal, nice news ...

> What I was intending to say was that I think that a previous poster was
> misinterpreted as having said that John Williams is the jerk, and that
> given what I'd heard about the two composers, that was a much less likely
> scenario than John Williams being a Jerk (funny how words just come into
> focus later on down the line).

Yup, and funny how people keep trying to proove that any of these composers are jerks ... It should only be about their Music.

> I never meant to state that "Zimmer is a Jerk" as fact, and if I did, it was
> in error. I was only relaying what I have heard about him.

Ok, I C, anyway, it's really not that important, let's move on ..

> And, as far as the whole knowing your motor thing,

Oh yeah, the motor thing is my favourite ...

> the difference between a championship driver and one that barely qualifies
> for the same race can easily be determined by how much the driver knows about
> the inner workings of his car.

True but ...
Ok, so we talk about a car race ok. there are the cars from the factories and there are the classically trained drivers. They know how their motors work and stuff so they are probably better drivers than those who drive the same car without any knowledge, and then there is that poor Zimmer guy who wants to join the championship. Well yup, he doesnt know that much about these cars from the factories, but he created a car of his own, and he knows brilliantly how that one works. And in this case he doesnt need to learn things about the factory cars, coz he can easily join the race with his own one. What I am trying to say is that Zimmer is now too old to start to learn the basic things officially, and he doesnt even need to (coz he does know everything he needs, just not in the official form). He has reached a very high level on his own, which is a bigger respect from him than a paper that prooves he can read ... Well it sounded a little bit childish (would have been better in my mother language) in this way but I hope you get the point.

Does this mean that Hans will be a better composer if he learns how to
> read music? Not necessarily. But, I think that it would show so much more
> respect to his field (which, I believe, is a field that deserves respect)

You are damn right about how much respect this field deserves, but
1.) (and this is the funniest one coz it will make our whole car chase conversation totally needless): Hans Zimmer Can Read Music, that's for sure. A person working with orchestras all the time learns things without even realizing it.
2.) I think the respect is not in your 'ability to read music' but in the quality of your works.

> to learn how to read. He's obviously got enough money to take some time
> off and learn, but whatever.

Yeah, he has money, no arguement ... but I dont think he is doing it for the money, so he wont stop composing just because he has enough money.

And no, I am not saying that you have to
> learn to read music as well. The difference in that situation is that Hans
> Zimmer is... one of the most frequently hired composers in the game,

Ohh thank you, now you have really broken my heart ...

and
> should probably think about what kind of example he is setting for the
> people who want to play. Like a baseball player who is more concerned with
> his Pepsi endorsement falling through than the fact that he is batting
> clean up and hitting .221 with 3 home runs at the all-star break.

Ahm well, could be my mistake, but I have never seen Zimmer dancing in the colosseum next to stupid Brintey with a Pepsi in his hand. He is just a man doing and (hope so) loving his job

If you
> want to compose without being able to read, that's great.

Nah, it's really nothing to do with 'I want to compose but without being able to read coz that's tough' or something. I am 19 and I am in the field of music since the age of 6, and somehow my mom never sent me to music schools (coz here in my country there aren't many), it's just happened in this way. I am not happy with it though, but I accept it. And now I reached a level and it would be strange (and may be it wouldn't even work) If I would go to a school and start everything from the basic. It's like I have learnt how to play on the piano by myself and now I am confortable with my ability, but I know I would never be able to become a professional pianist, that ship has gone.

> I like that you write.

Thank You

Just think about the kind of example that you would be setting if
> somebody offers you a job that would make you a public figure.

That has already happened ...

Then, I
> would suggest going out there and learning how to read. Who knows? It
> might save your bacon one of these days.

Well true ... who knows ...

> All the best,

all the best to you too

> Ken Applegate
I am a composer myself, and I cant read music

Hehe, cool, may be we should send our stuff to each others one day.

I'll be off from tomorrow for 3 weeks. It suppose to be a holyday or what, but without my puter and workstation it will much more be a torture trip. I enjoyed to discuss with you ...

take care pal

Freak


Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display


Ken Applegate
<Send E-Mail>
(lsanca1-ar13-4-60-135-085.lsanca1
.dsl-verizon.net)

  In Response to:
FREAK
Re: Well yes, but   Thursday, July 8, 2004 (10:34 p.m.) 

"Ahm well, could be my mistake, but I have never seen Zimmer dancing in the colosseum next to stupid Brintey with a Pepsi in his hand."

Wasn't that Bob Dole?? *S* You know what I mean. Having his mind something other than the ball. One theory I have had (and this is only a theory, mind you) is that Zimmer and Horner survive in the Film Scoring industry on the basis of their business skills. Without being too biased, I don't really care for the work of these two composers (and most of my friends at school can't stand either one of them). The fact that most people that I know who would think to buy a soundtrack that isn't all heavy metal rock and/wrap would rather sit on a nail than purchase the works of these two guys (with some exceptions like Rocketeer, Apollo 13, Gladiator, The Rock... etc) is what leads me to believe this. So, if nothing else, I can respect the two of them as business men, and there is the possibility that they might be so occupied with the business of film scoring, they don't have the time or energy afterwards to deliver the kind of product that they are capable of. I think that, if this theory is correct, Zimmer could get his place in history as something other than a love/hate film scorer by focusing less on business. One thing I actually admired him for was taking a 3-note motive and scoring an entire long brukheimer movie with it (Pearl Harbor) and making it not boring the entire time. That (along with a pretty good gut feeling) tells me that he's got something great inside of him waiting to be let out. I really can't wait to hear it when it comes.
Feel free to email me off the board, if you like. Just be shure you tell me that you're you in the subject line 'cause I got my mail filter on exclusive.

All the best,

Ken Applegate

Post Full Response         Edit Post         Threaded display



Copyright © 1998-2018, Filmtracks Publications. All rights reserved.
The reviews and other textual content contained on the filmtracks.com site may not be published, broadcast,
rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of Christian Clemmensen at Filmtracks Publications. Scoreboard created 7/24/98 and last updated 4/25/15.