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  Comments about: Tomorrow Never Dies (David Arnold)
TND


Kingdom Come
(dial81-131-76-242.in-addr.btopenworld.com)


  Responses to this Comment:
Kingdom Come
Kingdom Come
  TND   Thursday, January 29, 2004 (12:59 p.m.) 

I'm amazed this ghastly score rates so highly. Just goes to prove that cliche sells and excites.

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Kingdom Come
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Kingdom Come

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Zephros
  Re: TND   Friday, January 30, 2004 (1:44 p.m.) 

I agree; it sounds much worse though after coming from the sublime Goldeneye score. I'm sure I am not alone into thinking the several thousand who voted it 5 stars... often smell rats....

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Zephros
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Kingdom Come

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Kingdom Come
  Are you deaf?   Saturday, March 20, 2004 (5:40 a.m.) 

God knows what horrendous substance must live in your ears if you gave Goldeneye 5 stars and hate this score. Arnold's score is pure Bond bliss, and Serra's excuse for a score sounds like it was vomited out several times before coming out the other end. It's people like you who make me lose faith in the future of music in the world...

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Kingdom Come
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Zephros
  Are you dumb!   Monday, March 29, 2004 (11:14 a.m.) 

Well, it's obvious you like your scores full of cliches and good luck to ya! I am not interested in 'cover versions' of past John Barry Bond scores. For one thing, it shows little imagination. Goldeneye's score was something very fresh and unusual; something that brought Bond screaming out of the 70s. Arnold's scores are tired; bored; boring; backward looking and you end up counting how many times you hear other composers styles in his writing. Arnold is a hack. Serra is an original. Barry is an original. Williams is an orginal etc. You obviously feel comforted by familarity, as I do in regards to Barry's music outside Bond. Barry reinvented the wheel in the early films. Serra did it for Goldeneye, at the request of the Bond producers.

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Zephros
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Kingdom Come
  Re: Are you dumb!   Sunday, April 4, 2004 (7:32 a.m.) 

> Well, it's obvious you like your scores full of cliches and good luck to
> ya! I am not interested in 'cover versions' of past John Barry Bond
> scores. For one thing, it shows little imagination. Goldeneye's score was
> something very fresh and unusual; something that brought Bond screaming
> out of the 70s. Arnold's scores are tired; bored; boring; backward looking
> and you end up counting how many times you hear other composers styles in
> his writing. Arnold is a hack. Serra is an original. Barry is an original.
> Williams is an orginal etc. You obviously feel comforted by familarity, as
> I do in regards to Barry's music outside Bond. Barry reinvented the wheel
> in the early films. Serra did it for Goldeneye, at the request of the Bond
> producers.

Serra was and is not fresh OR original. Listen to his score for Goldeneye. Then listen to his score for The Fifth Element. You can barely tell them apart! The man is a hack, and I couldn't agree more with Christian's reviews for both Goldeneye and Tomorrow Never Dies, except that the latter probably deserved another star. It's not cliche, it's called continuity. It would be cliche if it was just another spy movie, but not James Bond. But it is James Bond, and Bond scores have a similar sound. Why? Because that's how you recognise the score, and that's how a good score works. The Bond theme is obligatory in a Bond movie, and Serra mutated it to be almost unrecognisable in his mess of a score. The Bond theme was heard once in its full glory in that film, and that scene wasn't even composed by Serra. It was composed and arranged by Nic Raine.

Arnold's score balances the traditional orchestral element, the big, brassy and electric guitar that is Bond and the modern synthesizers to make a whole, cohesive score. Now, I'm not saying that I have more knowledge of film scores than you, but I can be almost positive that Christian knows what he is talking about, moreso than you.

If you think that this is cliche, I'd hate to see what you think is orginal... Certainly not Goldeneye I hope.

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Kingdom Come
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Zephros

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Zephros
  some enchanted evening.............   Sunday, April 4, 2004 (1:03 p.m.) 

This 'Christan' I take it, reviewed both films? 'Those that can - DO; those that can't DO - teach; and those that can't do either become critics'. I wonder if the lovely Christian had anything to do with there being nowhere to comment apart from here, on Goldeneye? His 'review' was not constructive the way one would expect, it was full of bias.

I do understand where you two are coming from and understand that my 'take' on this whole business is a minority view. It's just that the monotony of 20 films, will damage the series; in this case the same style of score over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Serra, like all composers except Arnold, has a style that one can hear in most of their work; Barry is the same; Williams; Goldenthal; Yared etc all have a style of writing and recording and in Serra's case, the most amazingly clever and original choice of instruments. I have both Goldeneye and The Fifth Element scores and the only thing I can hear that is 'the same' is his 'style'.

You say the James Bond theme was only used once in Goldeneye; [Tank Chase] If you watch the film again and pay very close attention you will be amazed to find that Serra used the James Bond theme in a number of scenes throughout the piece but in a fresh and inspiring way. Incidently, when I heard that Raine version, the scene was undermined for me slightly - just thowing that James Bond theme at such a good action sequence smacked of laziness. Arnold also has this cock-eyed attitude that if he sees a very Bond moment on screen he brings out the James Bond theme. Now for me this, more often than not, is a mistake, as it only underlines the lack of originality in the scene itself. If you have a sequence that has been 'done before' not only in the Bond films but in other films, you have to do your damndest to help make it fresh for the audience - by laying the Bond theme over it, only does the opposite.

As a footnote; sincerely, Goldeneye is one of the most
evocative and masterful scores in the last 30 years.

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Zephros
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Kingdom Come
  Re: some enchanted evening.............   Sunday, April 4, 2004 (8:40 p.m.) 

I don't like how people are always slamming Christian because he is a film score critic. There has to be critics, otherwise people won't know what they will like or not. This happens to be Christian's job, and I don't see why he has to be either a composer or a music teacher to be able to review music. If anything, if he was a composer this would lower his credibility as people would label him "cocky" for thinking that his own scores are superior than those he is reviewing. It's really a no-win situation for Christian here, so you should really lay off him. I hate to battle his arguments for him, but he is probably far too busy to be doing such a trivial thing as arguing with people who disagree with him. That's where I come in.

What is your definition of the Bond theme? Is it the electric guitar twanging with the three note chromatic in the background? Or the full brass-jazz theme that is used mostly when Bond has done something exeptionally good on screen? Arnold uses the theme effectively in this score, but unfortunately his own material diminished and the Bond theme is used excessively as his scoring progresses through the franchise (just listen to "Die Anothe Day"). But as I said, he utilizes the theme well in "Tomorrow Never Dies", and when his own traditional orchestral style is mixed with the theme the result is breathtaking. I get shivers down my spine when I hear "Backseat Driver" and it leads into the familiar guitar theme we know and love. Serra absolutely butchered the theme, not once, as I said, is it heard in its full glory save the Raine arrangement. By "full glory" I mean the jazzy brass fanfare part of the theme, and at least Arnold uses it effectively, if only sparingly.

At any rate, I can see we won't be agreeing with each other any time soon, so we should probably leave it there.

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Kingdom Come
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Kingdom Come
  Re: TND   Saturday, January 31, 2004 (1:41 p.m.) 

Although having said all this, perhaps if the original release had of contained the extra cues - which I don't have, it may have made a difference.

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