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Comments about the soundtrack for Zathura (John Debney)
New Union Rules for Orchestra Players???

Steven Sommerset
(72.25.16.172.dynamic.dejazzd.com)


  Responses to this Comment:
sfdfdfdfd
New Union Rules for Orchestra Players???   Sunday, December 4, 2005 (5:33 p.m.) 

I am still seeing that Varese Sarabande is making good on breaking their 30 minute album trend. However I have noticed that they now keep their albums around 40 to 45 minutes still. I thought a few months ago there was a change in the way union orchestras handle reuse fees. As long as it was under 14,999 units (or something) record labels could have as much music as they wanted.

Anyone else know anything about this?

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sfdfdfdfd
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  In Response to:
Steven Sommerset

  Responses to this Comment:
Fraley
Re: New Union Rules for Orchestra Players???   Tuesday, December 6, 2005 (4:55 p.m.) 

I don't know about all that "units" stuff, but I know that it's not so much because of the label as to why albums are so short as it is because of how much the composer is willing to pay for the length of their albums. I have plenty of scores from other labels like Decca (X-Men score is only 40 minutes) and Hollywood records (Hildago is 45 minutes) or the Congo score from Epic Soundtrax which is 33 minutes long. James Horner's scores for Varese Sarabande are very long. Orchestral scores are expensive, yet if a composer does the entire score with a synthesizer for Varese (or any label), it's cheaper, and therefore, longer. So the "union" thing definitely comes into play (I even emailed Marco Beltrami once and he explained it to me), but i'm not sure if the certain number of units factors in.

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Fraley
(67.134.190.100)

  In Response to:
sfdfdfdfd

  Responses to this Comment:
Fraley
Re: New Union Rules for Orchestra Players???   Friday, December 9, 2005 (12:44 p.m.) 

Yes, there was a recent change in AFM union rules regarding re-use fees. Re-use fees account for the biggest reason why the bulk of score albums are short. Simply put, music recorded using AFM musicians (i.e. any score recorded in L.A) is licensed for release in blocks of time. I.e. if a score is recorded in L.A, then the longer the album, the higher the licensing fees. A recent change in union rules, however, does reduce the re-use fee cost dramatically if the number of units produced is below 15,000. I don't recall the specifics of the change, but the number of units does come into play.

As far as the length of albums not immediately increasing, there are other costs involved with lengthier albums. The tracks need to be selected, edited, possibly remixed or balanced, remastered, etc, so even without the re-use fees, the longer the album, the more preparation work is required. It's also possible that some recently released albums may have had the licensing details brokered prior to the change in policy.

Anyway, I'm still holding out hope that the change in re-use fees will result in longer albums, as well as more releases.

> I don't know about all that "units" stuff, but I know that it's
> not so much because of the label as to why albums are so short as it is
> because of how much the composer is willing to pay for the length of their
> albums. I have plenty of scores from other labels like Decca (X-Men score
> is only 40 minutes) and Hollywood records (Hildago is 45 minutes) or the
> Congo score from Epic Soundtrax which is 33 minutes long. James Horner's
> scores for Varese Sarabande are very long. Orchestral scores are
> expensive, yet if a composer does the entire score with a synthesizer for
> Varese (or any label), it's cheaper, and therefore, longer. So the
> "union" thing definitely comes into play (I even emailed Marco
> Beltrami once and he explained it to me), but i'm not sure if the certain
> number of units factors in.


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Fraley
(67.134.190.100)

  In Response to:
Fraley

  Responses to this Comment:
musicman41690
Oh yeah   Friday, December 9, 2005 (12:47 p.m.) 

If you notice, most scores that get 70+ minute releases were not recorded in the US. They are typically recorded in Europe, where re-use fees aren't a problem. I believe that was a factor in motivating the change in union rules, i.e a lot of productions going over-seas to record to avoid the AFM union fees.

> Yes, there was a recent change in AFM union rules regarding re-use fees.
> Re-use fees account for the biggest reason why the bulk of score albums
> are short. Simply put, music recorded using AFM musicians (i.e. any score
> recorded in L.A) is licensed for release in blocks of time. I.e. if a
> score is recorded in L.A, then the longer the album, the higher the
> licensing fees. A recent change in union rules, however, does reduce the
> re-use fee cost dramatically if the number of units produced is below
> 15,000. I don't recall the specifics of the change, but the number of
> units does come into play.

> As far as the length of albums not immediately increasing, there are other
> costs involved with lengthier albums. The tracks need to be selected,
> edited, possibly remixed or balanced, remastered, etc, so even without the
> re-use fees, the longer the album, the more preparation work is required.
> It's also possible that some recently released albums may have had the
> licensing details brokered prior to the change in policy.

> Anyway, I'm still holding out hope that the change in re-use fees will
> result in longer albums, as well as more releases.


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musicman41690
(12-202-44-82.client.insightbb.com)

  In Response to:
Fraley

  Responses to this Comment:
Dickweed
Re: Oh yeah   Saturday, December 10, 2005 (8:24 a.m.) 

> If you notice, most scores that get 70+ minute releases were not recorded
> in the US. They are typically recorded in Europe, where re-use fees aren't
> a problem. I believe that was a factor in motivating the change in union
> rules, i.e a lot of productions going over-seas to record to avoid the AFM
> union fees.

This is good news. I think that between this, and potentially the success of the LOTR complete score releases, the door could be opened for more popular complete score albums that were recorded by union orchestras (the Indiana Jones scores, for instance).

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Dickweed
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  In Response to:
musicman41690

  Responses to this Comment:
Christian Clemmensen
Re: Oh yeah   Sunday, April 30, 2017 (9:31 a.m.) 

IGNORE THIS DRIVEL.

ONLY A TEST.



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Christian Clemmensen
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  In Response to:
Dickweed
Re: Oh yeah   Sunday, April 30, 2017 (9:33 a.m.) 

> IGNORE THIS DRIVEL.

> ONLY A TEST.

E-mail notification response test.


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