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Comments about the soundtrack for A.I. (John Williams)

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Re: Williams go home
• Posted by: juju-bean   <Send E-Mail>
• Date: Monday, February 25, 2002, at 2:21 p.m.
• IP Address:
• In Response to: Re: Williams go home (ugly joe)

ROFL, I don't know... ugly joe, i must say *your opinion* has got to be the complete opposite of mine. I find many of Zimmer's scores lacking. Thin Red Line was perfect... and Gladiator was very very good... i've also said before that i like As Good As It Gets, (works very well with the film). *There are others as well. You however, I am convinced, are not looking at how the score works in the film, as opposed to how it sounds on album.

Frankly, you are very opinionated, i mean what the hell is this: "Zimmer is THE BEST, THE ONLY GENIUS IN FILM MUSIC. All of the others are just disciples"?? How about all the genius's who inspired Zimmer... to which i think he is no comparison... These people, like Bernard Herrmann who you ludicrously slandor... ("not outstanding" huh?) These guys were some of the first to put music to film... They were originators. They were Genius. Yet you act like God's gift to the film scoring stage is Hans Zimmer, who writes "action music superbly". Oh, my! Ok, he has been innovative, he was the first composer to really use synthetics and orchestra effectively... and we now see composers using more synthetics effectively, probably because of zimmer. But, lots of his music seems more dependent on the synthetics than they should be. What i think to be Zimmer's best score is The Thin Red Line, and that used quite a bit less of that "Zimmer sound" that people like so much. Just tell me what is so great about the average zimmer music?

I have seen him describe some great emotions with his music... But, i don't see him telling stories with many of his scores. Of course they do support the film, but these are not artistic scores. We instead get to hear scores of his that are pounding out rhythms to ppl hacking away at each other, or blaring sound of machine gun fire. Guess what? Half of these scenes in movies like: The Rock, probably do not even need score... A movie can carry itself... it does not always need score... this makes Zimmer's music in a movie like that only seem less effective. I've read interviews with Zimmer... and frankly he seems to think almost the same way. I have never heard anything of his that is more complex than Williams music.

And you are QUITE wrong, about critics thinking only classical-like music is good for film... Critics usually look at how the score works within the film. Zimmer scores scenes and i could sit and listen to the music and think of over a dozen different action scenes that he has scored... However if you listen to cues from other "better scores" they might represent the scene with something particular. I've used an example of john williams from the indiana jones and the last crusade: he scores an action (exciting) scene of a boat chase through venice... now: he doesn't just toss a bunch of pounding rhythms and chords that lead to a gothic battle sound... no, he uses a bright almost happy, adventurous theme... yet he still hits off of many things in the scene. You can hear, im not sure if it is brass, or actually a fog horn of some sort representing the big ships they are passing between. Then, when the 'bad guys' get out their gun and start shooting at our hero's boat the music suddenly changes to represent the use of the weapon, there is a rhythm played with a snare (military sounding). Then as the boat is getting sucked towards the big propeller williams uses the orchestra to imitate the propeller. How can 10 minutes of zimmer's synth rhythms compare in uniqueness to this? I can hear Zimmer's chords, where they are going almost before they get there. Williams on the other hand uses polyphonic textures in much of his music, and great complex rhythm in many of his cues. His orchestrations are brilliant, and they are HIS orchestrations. He has a wide range of dynamics, and style... he can write suspense and he can write childishly playful. I do not think you should belittle williams. He is truely a distinguished film composer.

Oh, But, no, you don't stop there, you continue on and say that everyone else is just a disciple of Zimmer. I doubt Zimmer would agree with you. I doubt he is that big headed. I know he has shown respect for Morricone, and others. He said in an interview, if i recall correctly, that while in school he was always doing more "artsy" projects, and he always wanted to be like john williams and write great action music.(interview: I guess he was just being modest? After all, he's the best film composer... DOH! He scores a certain type of movie, and i can't altogether say i am impressed with that certain type of movie... He has written some very exceptional scores, i'm not arguing that, i just think you have made some terribly biased statements. Nothing he has written this year is worthy of an oscar i think... closest would be hannibal... and maybe it shouldve gotten a nod, and been nominated. I admit the academy does favor certain things; i think it is all political.
But if a score were to be nominated over the picks made this year, i think it should be elliot goldenthal's "innovative" score for Final Fantasy. I say innovative because he is in some respects also an innovator, he has used many horrifically wonderful sounds with the orchestra to express things in the film :P Now this is not always appropriate, but in FF film it fit perfectly.

Anyway, i doubt this will convince you to change your opinion, but i say for the sake of the art... of music... and of film... you concentrate more on the music in the film. Listen to how the music works with the film to become one texture. Also, about Zimmer's style, I would think it is harder and more effective to compose an orchestra playing a complex rhythm than it is to create a rhythm with synthetic percussion. Just because it is new and sounds cool doesn't mean it is better...

Comments in this Thread:     Expand >>
  • Williams go home  (11458 views)
       ugly joe - Monday, September 10, 2001, at 11:41 a.m.
    •    Re: Dear ugly joe...  (11658 views)
         Levente Benedek - Friday, September 14, 2001, at 9:15 a.m.
    •    Re: Williams go home  (11367 views)
         Levente Benedek - Monday, September 10, 2001, at 1:06 p.m.
      •    Re: Williams go home  (11277 views)
           Josh - Wednesday, September 19, 2001, at 8:04 p.m.
        •    Re: Williams go home  (11190 views)
             Levente Benedek - Thursday, October 11, 2001, at 10:00 a.m.
      •    Re: Williams go home  (11271 views)
           ugly joe - Tuesday, September 11, 2001, at 12:00 p.m.
        •    Re: Williams go home  (8989 views)
             S.Venkatnarayanan - Monday, March 31, 2008, at 4:41 a.m.
        •    Re: Williams go home  (11569 views)
             David Pintado - Sunday, January 20, 2002, at 12:42 a.m.
          •    Re: Williams go home  (11482 views)
               ugly joe - Sunday, January 20, 2002, at 8:56 a.m.
            •      Re: Williams go home  (11700 views)    We're Here
                 juju-bean - Monday, February 25, 2002, at 2:21 p.m.
            •    Re: Williams go home  (11400 views)
                 David Pintado - Tuesday, January 22, 2002, at 7:50 p.m.
              •    Re: Williams go home  (11267 views)
                   ugly joe - Wednesday, January 23, 2002, at 4:00 a.m.
                •    Re: Williams go home  (11532 views)
                     David Pintado - Wednesday, January 23, 2002, at 4:55 a.m.

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