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Comments about the soundtrack for Crimson Tide (Hans Zimmer)

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Re: Zimmer and Goldenthal
• Posted by: Kyri   <Send E-Mail>
• Date: Monday, August 5, 2002, at 2:01 p.m.
• IP Address:
• In Response to: Re: Zimmer and Goldenthal (Pawel Stroinski)

> For Zimmer, it is distinct. He almost quit his synths (but this score is
> sampled). It has atonal fragments (one or two), but mostly it's elegant
> and classical. One of Zimmer's friends (Klaus Badelt) composed a parody of
> Blue Danube (yes! listen to it). Another one scored an opera piece and it
> is very likely that he'll write a whole opera (Zimmer and fans encourage
> him). And take a listen in Te Thin Red Line. This is a score you must
> listen into. It makes me very reflective it's distinct too. And another,
> definitely atonal Zimer for you Black Hawk Down. Now this is a score to
> discuss (very clever dicisions made by Hans himself).

Yep. I might check on all of that. Especially Hannibal. Do you have any idea where i can find the operas and stuff?

> I'm not offended and I'm not a student. I'm a self-taught composer (very,
> very weak, although I like some od my tracks). If you want I could send
> you some MIDIs with my compositions (and don't be too hard with it ).

Yeah, sure! I would love to hear them. Who knows, you might be the next Danny Elfman!

And one question.
> What exactly an euphonium is?

Hmmm... being a music student doesn't mean i know everything.. I believe it belongs in the brass family of instruments, not sure though.

> If you want to be a conductor, good luck (Maybe I'll be a score composer
> and I must have a conductor ))

Yeah, that would be fun! Who knows..

> Before this post I made my homework. I listened to Alien3 and I read all
> Goldenthal rewievs on this site and I'll be happy to share my opponions
> about it with you).

> I liked the score. It is not "Abundance of noise with no
> substance", although it has its share of noise .

Hmmmm..there is a difference between MERE noise and MEANINGFUL noise. Goldenthal uses the instruments in such ways because he wants to portray and exaggerate certain key elements in the film.

> It has some flaws though: few fragments with score really sounding like
> sound effects (I agree with Christian here, sorry),

Yes, but those "sound effects" are very meaningful sound effects. The purpose of music in a film is to subtly enhance the pictures. If a film demands such brutality then it has to be present in the movie in a raw form. For example, in The First Attack cue, at around 4:10 you can actually listen to all the violence in the brass section. It sounds as if the hands of a brutal beast are violently trying to grasp you. It's just so obvious. The music, just like the film has to portray such brutality in a raw form. Another example occurs in Death dance, 1:35 to be more precise.

...a neat but unnecessary
> heavy metal cue (maybe it compliments the primality of the rape on Ripley,
> tell me)

Yes, exactly. I really don't find this cue unnecessary. Why do you say that?

...and a track name I can't agree with (Lento stops being lento at a
> time).

Nope, i think that the whole cue deserves "Lento" as a title. You must be referring to the section immediately after the "aria". If you listen to it more carefully and follow it in a more horizontal way instead of paying too much attention in the minimalistic violins, you will see that the "melody" is situated in the brass section. You might find an example of the same technique in Beethoven's sixth Symphony (2nd movement). There you can very clearly see that the theme motives appear to be separated by accompanying violins. This is what Goldenthal does only in a lot more Contemporary-minimalistic way.

> For me it is a weak 4 stars/very strong 3.5. My favorite Alien score is
> still Horner Aliens.

Hmmmmm...i would give Goldenthal's Alien3 a high five, and Horner's Aliens a 3.
My second favourite Alien score would be Goldsmith's original attempt. Great orchestrations, different feel, a classic.

> Does Golenthal give a classical track titl in every score (Adagio, Lento,
> Toccata, Dies Irae)?

Yes, he does that a lot. I like it actually. He manages to give titles a more serious, artistic form instead of the old-fashioned "Main titles," Bob's theme" etc.

> And one thing I haven't told you before. I don't agree with you about
> originality of Track 3 of Star Wars II, except the guitar of course. It
> sounds alot like Williams' The Lost World and sounds like Stravinsky's
> "The Rite of Springs".

Tell you the truth, i haven't heard The lost World so i can't comment on that.
Oh....ok yeah...The Rite of Springs. Well i give you that, but then again, Williams has plagiarized almost every composer. Wagner, Shostakovich, Rachmaninoff etc. What i like about Williams though is that he brought forth the romantic sounds that classic films need (Star Wars, ET, Close Encounters) and no matter how better a musician Goldenthal is, i still have lots of appreciation for John Williams and his immense work for film music.
Goldenthal on the other hand is a solid composer and a great musician. Maybe that's the reason he is very underrated; because like any true musician, he sometimes is quite hard to understand(check out his Fire Water Paper:A vietnam oratorio; a great piece of work).

> I like discussing with you.

Me too!
> Thanks, Pawel

Are you Polish? Tell me, what do people there think about Elliot Goldenthal?(they might like him a lot because he is using techniques associated with the Polish avant-garde??)


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