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Comments about the soundtrack for Crimson Tide (Hans Zimmer)

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Re: Zimmer and Goldenthal
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• Posted by: Pawel Stroinski   <Send E-Mail>
• Date: Tuesday, August 6, 2002, at 5:48 a.m.
• IP Address:
• In Response to: Re: Zimmer and Goldenthal (Kyri)

> Yep. I might check on all of that. Especially Hannibal. Do you have any
> idea where i can find the operas and stuff?

On Kazaa, in any store. It was a quite big publication. I don't know about the opera . Check out Hannibal's website.

> Yeah, sure! I would love to hear them. Who knows, you might be the next
> Danny Elfman!

> And one question.

> Hmmm... being a music student doesn't mean i know everything.. I believe
> it belongs in the brass family of instruments, not sure though.


> Yeah, that would be fun! Who knows..

No, I'm not another Elfman . I'm rather musical son of Hans Zimmer , but I started to rely on orchestra rather than synths. Well I'll send you something, that in my oppinion, sounds like Schindler's List meets Pearl Harbor.

> Hmmmm..there is a difference between MERE noise and MEANINGFUL noise.
> Goldenthal uses the instruments in such ways because he wants to portray
> and exaggerate certain key elements in the film.

Yes. I agree.

> Yes, but those "sound effects" are very meaningful sound
> effects. The purpose of music in a film is to subtly enhance the pictures.
> If a film demands such brutality then it has to be present in the movie in
> a raw form. For example, in The First Attack cue, at around 4:10 you can
> actually listen to all the violence in the brass section. It sounds as if
> the hands of a brutal beast are violently trying to grasp you. It's just
> so obvious. The music, just like the film has to portray such brutality in
> a raw form. Another example occurs in Death dance, 1:35 to be more
> precise.

Yes. I found those brass quite attractive to my ears... I didn't expect that. It has a meaning, but I don't recall the context.

> ...a neat but unnecessary

> Yes, exactly. I really don't find this cue unnecessary. Why do you say
> that?

On an orchestral score heavy metal, that's quite strange, don't you think? But still it's neat.

> ...and a track name I can't agree with (Lento stops being lento at a

> Nope, i think that the whole cue deserves "Lento" as a title.
> You must be referring to the section immediately after the
> "aria". If you listen to it more carefully and follow it in a
> more horizontal way instead of paying too much attention in the
> minimalistic violins, you will see that the "melody" is situated
> in the brass section. You might find an example of the same technique in
> Beethoven's sixth Symphony (2nd movement). There you can very clearly see
> that the theme motives appear to be separated by accompanying violins.
> This is what Goldenthal does only in a lot more Contemporary-minimalistic
> way.

I'll listen to that Beethoven. Maybe you're right.

> Hmmmmm...i would give Goldenthal's Alien3 a high five, and Horner's Aliens
> a 3.
My second favourite Alien score would be Goldsmith's original
> attempt. Great orchestrations, different feel, a classic.

> Yes, he does that a lot. I like it actually. He manages to give titles a
> more serious, artistic form instead of the old-fashioned "Main
> titles," Bob's theme" etc.

> Tell you the truth, i haven't heard The lost World so i can't comment on
> that.
Oh....ok yeah...The Rite of Springs. Well i give you that, but
> then again, Williams has plagiarized almost every composer. Wagner,
> Shostakovich, Rachmaninoff etc. What i like about Williams though is that
> he brought forth the romantic sounds that classic films need (Star Wars,
> ET, Close Encounters) and no matter how better a musician Goldenthal is, i
> still have lots of appreciation for John Williams and his immense work for
> film music.
Goldenthal on the other hand is a solid composer and a
> great musician. Maybe that's the reason he is very underrated; because
> like any true musician, he sometimes is quite hard to understand(check out
> his Fire Water Paper:A vietnam oratorio; a great piece of work).

Tell me more about the oratorio. My favorite Williams is of course Schindler's List. A very simple but effective effort.

> Me too!

Well I aprreciate meningful discussions.

> Are you Polish? Tell me, what do people there think about Elliot
> Goldenthal?(they might like him a lot because he is using techniques
> associated with the Polish avant-garde??)

I am Poilsh. I don't know about Goldenthal... As I wrote before he's appreciated for his orchestrations (compared to Berlioz, Ravel).

Thanks, k!


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