By now you may or may not have heard, but Nicholas Hooper will not be back for Harry Potter & the Deathly Hallows. In the piece I read, he said he had dropped off the project, saying it impinged on his life and family too much. While I'm sure that's true, a couple of things make me think there might actually be more two it than that.

In the Half-Blood Prince film, the scene at Fred and George's shop is covered with an exact reprise of "Fireworks" from "Order of the Phoenix." Curiously, this music doesn't appear on the soundtrack, but a different piece, "Wizard Wheezes," which was clearly written for this scene (it's the name of the shop) does. Why would the new piece (which is one of the memorable ones on the new score, really) be replaced by an old one by the man who composed it? Further, "Fireworks" appears again over the end credits, a wildly inappropriate placement of that music considering how dark things are when the movie ends. It smells like someone had issue with the music Hooper wrote and these changes were made because of that. (and I highly doubt it was David Yates)

Less significant I suppose is the appearance of "Room of Requirement" during the quidditch tryouts, which also doesn't appear on the score album. As noted in the review, bits of that piece appear in "Living Death", but it's a full-out reprise in the later scene. There doesn't appear to be anything on the album that it replaced, though. Still, in combination with the appearance of "Fireworks," I have to wonder if the studio or producers were dictating changes, and Hooper didn't want to work under those conditions. Or the studio decided they wanted someone else, or some combination thereof.

I think Hooper's music is quite good on its own and has some real beauty, but I agree that as the connective tissue for a film (series) this epic it lacks. There are no really memorable pieces on the Half-Blood Prince soundtrack (except possibly "Wizard Wheezes," as noted above.) The score for Order of the Phoenix had both the Umbridge and Room of Requirement/Dumbledore's Army themes, but this new score has virtually nothing that sticks with you like that. However, I do really like the love theme for Harry and Ginny and I hope the new composer sticks with it. It's very tender but tinged with sadness, which is precisely appropriate given the conditions under which their romance blossoms.

I blame this in part at least on David Yates, whose forté as a director is clearly the smaller, more emotional parts, and who hasn't yet shown any aptitude for anything that is epic or action-oriented. He continues to treat the Harry Potter films as small character studies and had Hooper write music to that effect. Read the liner notes of the album and you'll see what I mean. (in fairness, Yates' treatment is exactly why all the character development in this film is so well done. It just hurts in other areas.)

Producer David Heyman has stated they're trying to see if the schedules fits to get John Williams back for the two Deathly Hallows movies. I have some reservations about that. Having recently re-watched the first two movies, the music is really overdone. Some of that is no doubt attributable to Chris Columbus, but Williams to me has seemed past his prime for some time. His scores for "Revenge of the Sith" and "Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls" were pretty bad. The music for "Prisoner of Azkaban" was fantastic, but it also was a complete disconnect from the music from the prior two scores, and he mostly wrote it scene-to-scene rather than thematically (much like Hooper in that regard.)

I'd love to see Patrick Doyle back with the caveat that he does a better job incorporating Williams' key themes into the overall score. Whoever it is, they're going to have a heck of a task trying to put together something worthy of the final story. Most of important of all, they simply cannot continue to ignore "Hedwig's Theme," which remains the musical identity of the film series.

> The music for "Prisoner of Azkaban" was fantastic, but it also was a
> complete disconnect from the music from the prior two scores, and he mostly > wrote it scene-to-scene rather than thematically (much like Hooper in that
> regard.)

Um...there are many themes in PoA.

1. The Grim/Sirius Black Theme
2. Peter Pettigrew Theme(which also appeared very briefly in HBP as Harry and Slughorn walk to Hagrid's Hut - proof to me that Hooper has no idea what he's doing)
3. Double Trouble Theme
4. Buckbeak's Theme
5. Window to the Past/Harry's Family Theme
6. Dementor Theme
7. Hedwig's Theme, of course
8. Nimbus/Flying theme makes an appearance at the end

I've never picked up on a theme for either Sirius or Pettigrew. Don't know what you're talking about there. Buckbeak's music never appears again after the initial scene of Harry flying on his back, therefore it's not a theme (a theme, by its very nature, is repeated). Double Trouble, A Window to the Past, and the Dementors are all themes, but Double Trouble appears in so many places in the score I couldn't tell you what it symbolizes. The other two are pretty clear. There's also a Patronus theme.

Neither Hedwig's Theme nor the Nimbus/Flying theme show up enough to really count. Now go back and look at the number of pieces of music on that score that are unique to a particular scene:

Aunt Marge's Waltz, The Knight Bus, Buckbeak's flight, The Whomping Willow/Snowball Fight, Quidditch Third Year (which bears no relation to the quidditch music in the first two movies), The Werewolf Scene, Saving Buckbeak, Forward to Time Past. The score is more heavily tilted toward the non-thematic elements.

> Um...there are many themes in PoA.

> 1. The Grim/Sirius Black Theme
> 2. Peter Pettigrew Theme(which also appeared very briefly in HBP as Harry
> and Slughorn walk to Hagrid's Hut - proof to me that Hooper has no idea
> what he's doing)
> 3. Double Trouble Theme
> 4. Buckbeak's Theme
> 5. Window to the Past/Harry's Family Theme
> 6. Dementor Theme
> 7. Hedwig's Theme, of course
> 8. Nimbus/Flying theme makes an appearance at the end

> I've never picked up on a theme for either Sirius or Pettigrew. Don't know
> what you're talking about there.

Pettigrew's Theme is played on the harpsichord. It contains nine notes, but the first six are the same. Unfortunately it never appears on album at all, but it's played many times in the film with reference to Pettigrew.

The Sirius/Grim theme contains four notes. It doesn't appear on album much either, but you can hear it at 1:35 in "Quidditch, Third Year". The immediate start to that same track hints at the theme, as well. It is heard in the film as Harry and Mr. Weasley discuss Sirius Black and when Sirius steps out from behind the door in the Shrieking Shack.

> Buckbeak's music never appears again after the initial scene of Harry flying > on his back, therefore it's not a theme (a theme, by its very nature, is
> repeated).

That's not true. It appears again when Harry and Hermione fly on Buckbeak to save Sirius from the tower at the end of the film. There is also a very brief hint to it in the film after Harry and Hermione go back in time. Hermione realizes that Dumbledore wants them to save Buckbeak too, and Buckbeak's Theme is reprised very lightly and briefly.

> Double Trouble appears in so many places in the score I couldn't tell you
> what it symbolizes.

It's just the main theme of the score, probably intented to represent the somewhat playful darkness of the film.

> Neither Hedwig's Theme nor the Nimbus/Flying theme show up enough to
> really count.

Hedwig's Theme appears in "Lumos", "Secrets of the Castle", "Mischief Managed", and "A Window to the Past". There's the scene in which the season changes to winter, which is not on album. The theme is also played seconds before Lupin changes into a werewolf. "The Whomping Willow and the Snowball Fight" is based around a variation of Hedwig's Theme. But you're right about the Nimbus/Flying theme.

> Aunt Marge's Waltz, The Knight Bus, Buckbeak's flight, The Whomping
> Willow/Snowball Fight, Quidditch Third Year (which bears no relation to
> the quidditch music in the first two movies), The Werewolf Scene, Saving
> Buckbeak, Forward to Time Past. The score is more heavily tilted toward
> the non-thematic elements.

It seems like these are non-thematic, but some of those are based around variations of the other themes. "Quidditch, Third Year" contains variations of the Double Trouble theme, while "The Whomping Willow" contains Hedwig's theme variations. But the others ones you mentioned, as far as I know, do not contain themes. I wouldn't be surprised if they are based around variations of themes, though.

I'm going to have to watch the movie again apparently. I did think you might be referring to that 4-note motif for Sirius/the Grim. I didn't count it because I don't feel it's developed enough to really be considered a theme.

> Pettigrew's Theme is played on the harpsichord. It contains nine notes,
> but the first six are the same. Unfortunately it never appears on album at
> all, but it's played many times in the film with reference to Pettigrew.

> The Sirius/Grim theme contains four notes. It doesn't appear on album much
> either, but you can hear it at 1:35 in "Quidditch, Third Year".
> The immediate start to that same track hints at the theme, as well. It is
> heard in the film as Harry and Mr. Weasley discuss Sirius Black and when
> Sirius steps out from behind the door in the Shrieking Shack.

> That's not true. It appears again when Harry and Hermione fly on Buckbeak
> to save Sirius from the tower at the end of the film. There is also a very
> brief hint to it in the film after Harry and Hermione go back in time.
> Hermione realizes that Dumbledore wants them to save Buckbeak too, and
> Buckbeak's Theme is reprised very lightly and briefly.

> It's just the main theme of the score, probably intented to represent the
> somewhat playful darkness of the film.

> Hedwig's Theme appears in "Lumos", "Secrets of the
> Castle", "Mischief Managed", and "A Window to the
> Past". There's the scene in which the season changes to winter, which
> is not on album. The theme is also played seconds before Lupin changes
> into a werewolf. "The Whomping Willow and the Snowball Fight" is
> based around a variation of Hedwig's Theme. But you're right about the
> Nimbus/Flying theme.

> It seems like these are non-thematic, but some of those are based around
> variations of the other themes. "Quidditch, Third Year" contains
> variations of the Double Trouble theme, while "The Whomping
> Willow" contains Hedwig's theme variations. But the others ones you
> mentioned, as far as I know, do not contain themes. I wouldn't be
> surprised if they are based around variations of themes, though.

> I'm going to have to watch the movie again apparently. I did think you
> might be referring to that 4-note motif for Sirius/the Grim. I didn't
> count it because I don't feel it's developed enough to really be
> considered a theme.

A motif, then.

> A motif, then.

That's the thing, though: a great score to a film series doesn't necessarily need a number of big, instantly identifiable themes...all it really needs is a handful or two of recognizable motifs that can be applied to appropriate situations. Take The Lord of the Rings. Sure you have your Hobbit theme and your Fellowship theme and those are the two hallmarks of that series. But there are also a slew of motifs that occur throughout. They are far from THE themes of that franchise, but they are still completely ingrained into the fabric of the story. In "Fellowship of the Ring", as Sam hesitates to take the step that would take him "farther away from home than ever before", a beautiful little oboe motif can be heard. In "Return of the King", this is heard again, played by the strings, in the beginning as Frodo, Sam and Gollum continue on their journey. Additionally, in the "The Two Towers", there is an incredibly haunting motif, sung by Ben Del Maestro, as the Ents marched toward Isengard. This is heard later in "Return of the King", just before the Rohan Army marches toward Minas Tirith to do battle, but instead of a serene choir, it's a full orchestra. Howard Shore's score for LOTR is a great model for how scoring a series should work. Plenty of new music should most definitely be added with each film, but hints of the earlier films must be working their way into the framework constantly.

With Potter, Hedwig's Theme is the only thing holding these films together, and while it's a strong link, it could have been much stronger and much more nuanced. "Azkaban" got off the path a little bit. There was an overuse of Double Trouble that could have been balanced by including a few more familiar themes from the first two films. But the orchestral texture was similar, and the reprise of the Nimbus 2000 theme at the end of the film made all the difference in the world. Watching the film, the texture (musically, visually or otherwise) of the first two was only barely discernible, but when that flying theme kicked in before the closing credits, followed by those French Horns blasting Hedwig's Theme, it really helped to marry Columbus's vision of Potter with Cuaron's.

Doyle and Hooper both should have understood the importance of this repetition. One theme is not enough for an 8-film series. A Window to the Past should have made an appearance during the Sirius scenes in "Phoenix", with Harry In Winter alluded to during the Cho Chang kiss. Ron Weasley's motif (heard during his Sorting and when he arrives at the Dursley home in the flying car) could have popped up in a few moments, and with so many flying broomstick moments, I wonder why Doyle and Hooper didn't include at least a statement of Williams' themes for those scenes. Neither Williams' nor Doyle's Voldemort themes pop up in Hooper's score. People say Hooper was humble in referencing Williams' Quidditch theme. What he really did was include the first four notes, a combination of pitches that are unbelievably common in orchestral music. It was the extension that made that theme a little more unique, and Hooper ditched it. It's as much a reference as taking the first four notes of "Happy Birthday" and proceeding onto something entirely different is a reference to that tune. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt, but if the "Prince" score is any indication, Hooper comes across as a tad egocentric. He sure takes the time out to reference Fireworks and Dumbledore's Army in THEIR full, and I get the feeling that "Phoenix" and "Prince" are trying to create their own world with the music, separate from the others. Now, I'm not saying that Williams will most certainly incorporate Doyle's and Hooper's themes if he returns for "Hallows". I sure as hell hope he would, but I can't be certain as he's never stepped into a franchise (or BACK into one for that matter) after a composer had already established themes for it. All I can really say is that he usually does a great job incorporating his OWN themes into a series, and I just hope he would show the same courtesy to other composers. I really wish Doyle and Hooper had been a little more willing to put their egos aside in such a way, to serve the continuity of the series a little more.

> By now you may or may not have heard, but Nicholas Hooper will not be back
> for Harry Potter & the Deathly Hallows. In the piece I read, he said
> he had dropped off the project, saying it impinged on his life and family
> too much. While I'm sure that's true, a couple of things make me think
> there might actually be more two it than that.

> In the Half-Blood Prince film, the scene at Fred and George's shop is
> covered with an exact reprise of "Fireworks" from "Order of
> the Phoenix." Curiously, this music doesn't appear on the soundtrack,
> but a different piece, "Wizard Wheezes," which was clearly
> written for this scene (it's the name of the shop) does. Why would the new
> piece (which is one of the memorable ones on the new score, really) be
> replaced by an old one by the man who composed it? Further,
> "Fireworks" appears again over the end credits, a wildly
> inappropriate placement of that music considering how dark things are when
> the movie ends. It smells like someone had issue with the music Hooper
> wrote and these changes were made because of that. (and I highly doubt it
> was David Yates)

> Less significant I suppose is the appearance of "Room of
> Requirement" during the quidditch tryouts, which also doesn't appear
> on the score album. As noted in the review, bits of that piece appear in
> "Living Death", but it's a full-out reprise in the later scene.
> There doesn't appear to be anything on the album that it replaced, though.
> Still, in combination with the appearance of "Fireworks," I have
> to wonder if the studio or producers were dictating changes, and Hooper
> didn't want to work under those conditions. Or the studio decided they
> wanted someone else, or some combination thereof.

> I think Hooper's music is quite good on its own and has some real beauty,
> but I agree that as the connective tissue for a film (series) this epic it
> lacks. There are no really memorable pieces on the Half-Blood Prince
> soundtrack (except possibly "Wizard Wheezes," as noted above.)
> The score for Order of the Phoenix had both the Umbridge and Room of
> Requirement/Dumbledore's Army themes, but this new score has virtually
> nothing that sticks with you like that. However, I do really like the love
> theme for Harry and Ginny and I hope the new composer sticks with it. It's
> very tender but tinged with sadness, which is precisely appropriate given
> the conditions under which their romance blossoms.

Hmm, Interesting, because I find this one had some memorable pieces. I particularly liked Malfoy's mission. I also thought "Harry and Hermione" was quite touching, simple as it is. Harry and Hermione btw, is quite similar to Harry and Ginny's theme, except the latter definitely feels more romantic while the former is sadder. But I do agree overall not much stands out on its own. Nothing really "hummable". I thought Order of the Phoenix was less memorable though, the least memorable of the series Imo. What I like about this album is that it really highlights the emotions of the characters better than virtually any other Potter album did overall thus far. Which I thought worked well, because this film, unlike the others, is one primarily about character development, which I guess brings us to your next point =P

> I blame this in part at least on David Yates, whose forté as a director is
> clearly the smaller, more emotional parts, and who hasn't yet shown any
> aptitude for anything that is epic or action-oriented. He continues to
> treat the Harry Potter films as small character studies and had Hooper
> write music to that effect. Read the liner notes of the album and you'll
> see what I mean. (in fairness, Yates' treatment is exactly why all the
> character development in this film is so well done. It just hurts in other
> areas.)

I agree with that Yates is definitely stronger when it comes to characters, which is why I think he did so much better with this film than in the OotP. Book 6 was almost completely about character development until the very end of the book, and despite all the complaints about the switching around of scenes and whatnot, I thought Yate's handled characters perfectly. However, I really don't see the problem with him with the actiony parts. I suppose they could be better, but he also provided us with the most intense action scene in the potter movies thus far, the battle between Dumbledore and Voldemort. Although I actually had a lot of gripes with that scene because dumbledore was shown to struggle while he really shoulda been handling voldemort with complete and utter ease, with accordance to the books. And although it was short, I thought Yates actually made the whole cave scene much more epic than I was expecting. Dumbledore showing of his skizzles in he cave I thought was amazingly epic.

> Producer David Heyman has stated they're trying to see if the schedules
> fits to get John Williams back for the two Deathly Hallows movies. I have
> some reservations about that. Having recently re-watched the first two
> movies, the music is really overdone. Some of that is no doubt
> attributable to Chris Columbus, but Williams to me has seemed past his
> prime for some time. His scores for "Revenge of the Sith" and
> "Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls" were pretty bad. The music for
> "Prisoner of Azkaban" was fantastic, but it also was a complete
> disconnect from the music from the prior two scores, and he mostly wrote
> it scene-to-scene rather than thematically (much like Hooper in that
> regard.)

This is interesting because well, I agree that William's music was quite overdone. Not really for the first movie, which was all about the discovery of magic and its wonder and whatnot, but moreso for the second film where I thought he really could have let back on the music, although I agree Columbus deserves some of the blame. But that's precisely why I wouldn't mind him returning for the last two movies, because the final story is wayyy more epic in scope than any of the previous films, put together lol. Thats way he can be as epic as he wants and it wouldn't really sound so overdone, because the film itself has a much larger scope.

> I'd love to see Patrick Doyle back with the caveat that he does a better
> job incorporating Williams' key themes into the overall score. Whoever it
> is, they're going to have a heck of a task trying to put together
> something worthy of the final story. Most of important of all, they simply
> cannot continue to ignore "Hedwig's Theme," which remains the
> musical identity of the film series.

I was actually just thinking the same thing before I read this paragraph lol. Doyle's music sounds like it would be really fitting for the final movie. I didn't really like it for the fourth movie. I didn't think it complemented things too well, and some scenes I felt were overdone, but again i think that would be perfectly appropriate for the final movies.

I'm not a fan of the "ten-second skip" edit that Yates likes to use. He did it in Order of the Phoenix after Sirius dies, and he did it here when Harry was trying to fight of the inferi in the cave. You don't get to see anything actually happen, just what comes next. I also thought the attack on the Burrow wasn't very well done... it's mostly just people running through reeds and the occasional tension-filled shot of someone looking through them. Not much actual fight takes place, it's just hinted at. (The whole scene also didn't serve any purpose, but that's another matter). And of course he left out the battle at the end entirely.

I don't want to watch the final battle of Hogwarts in fast-forward, or framed in a way that leaves the actual combat up to the imagination. I'm very concerned about how that's going to turn out.

Allow me to only quote the key parts of your lengthy post, ok?

> It smells like someone had issue with the music Hooper
> wrote and these changes were made because of that. (and I highly doubt it
> was David Yates)

I thought exactly the same while watching it. The musical placements completely out of the blue had me thinking immediately, before I read the news, that Hooper won't come back.
However, given how the end credits piece starts, in a VERY delicate manner, and it was Yates' order, or anybody else's, to put the Fireworks track in there, then that someone certainly didn't have musical sensibilities as well, since it really drove the audience out of the theatre for its complete lack of reflective qualities.

> Less significant I suppose is the appearance of "Room of
> Requirement" during the quidditch tryouts, which also doesn't appear
> on the score album. As noted in the review, bits of that piece appear in
> "Living Death", but it's a full-out reprise in the later scene.

I assume you mean "Dumbledore's Army" over the tryouts.
And I wonder, there is Umbridge's theme in "Living Death" - why? Lack of ideas?

> There doesn't appear to be anything on the album that it replaced, though.

Not trying to constantly clubb Hooper in the neck, really, but it speaks entire libraries about his sensibilities for theatrical movies that he left things like this completely unscored (if he indeed wrote nothing for it, which the album indicates).

> Still, in combination with the appearance of "Fireworks," I have
> to wonder if the studio or producers were dictating changes, and Hooper
> didn't want to work under those conditions. Or the studio decided they
> wanted someone else, or some combination thereof.

I'll throw something wild out there.
Surely, it is my own perception of the movie, but there are some others that agree with me on the harsh level of criticism: I actually think that the score is not only dull, unaffecting and completely out of place, it also sounds as if someone had stuck the worst tracks of a rejected score into the film.
And I think it affects the film in as much as it makes it worse.
And I truly see potential in there that could have lead, amongst other things I'm sure, to the delay of the film.

I mean, THINK about it for a minute: here you have a big picture, that was supposedly wrapped up and ready to go in time for its November release, meaning that the additional music from Order of the Phoenix was already in place. And now, purely for business reasons, the picture is moved for half a year. Wouldn't you think that these few scenes, which couldn't be completed - supposedly - for time restrictions or very serious re-edits, would have been rescored in these six months?

This is either a) a tremendously poor testament of the executives' musical judgement and care, or b) indication that trouble with Hooper was big.

> However, I do really like the love
> theme for Harry and Ginny and I hope the new composer sticks with it. It's
> very tender but tinged with sadness, which is precisely appropriate given
> the conditions under which their romance blossoms.

I don't think that qualifies as a "theme", and not merely because it's a variant, yet again, on Hedwig's theme, only this time played more tenderly; you see, a theme, that is, purely by definition, something specific and characteristic, and recognisable.
Hooper's harp/guitar tingling is anything but specific. It sticks out like that only because the orchestrations are so extremely dire.
It suffers from the same illness as Remote Control themes (and no, I'm NOT impying *stylistic* parallels, but structural ones) - they don't survive once your rip them out of their specific surrounding.

> I blame this in part at least on David Yates, whose forté as a director is
> clearly the smaller, more emotional parts, and who hasn't yet shown any
> aptitude for anything that is epic or action-oriented. He continues to
> treat the Harry Potter films as small character studies and had Hooper
> write music to that effect.

And exactly here lies the problem.
You can treat the films like character studies, sure. It only will never completely work because that is not what those stories are.
They are epic, partly fairy tale, partly drama, a good dose of romance, but they are not great in examining characters.
The books can do that to some extent, since they allow for a completely different experience.
A movie can go into those character details because the necessity of driving the story forward will always allow for enough action to never make the film boring.
But music needs to be written for the film, and not for the book. And the movies are, by the very nature of their source, big, grand, and epic.
Scores for such films simply have a lot more duties than underscoring dialogue.

Hooper may excel at scoring, say, a Sherlock Holmes story. But not Harry Potter.

I mean, I just thought about the magnitude of this the other day ... Just look at the tremendous opportunity for this guy!
Here you are, a television composer. And all of a sudden, you are signed to score maybe the hottest movie series today, and you are given not only a world chock full of characters, drama, places and first rate imagery for inspiration, but also a sack full of tested and approved, even famous, music by the most decorated film composer of the past 50 years to work with.
And then you come up with ... this? Surely not?

> Producer David Heyman has stated they're trying to see if the schedules
> fits to get John Williams back for the two Deathly Hallows movies. I have
> some reservations about that.

Like I said, the problem with Hooper already lies in his whole approach. Williams' music is inherently the polar opposite.

I am just trying not to say what I have on my mind the whole time, that Williams simply is three times the composer Hooper is. It may sound rude. Saying it straight like that probably *is* rude.
But then, Hooper caused quite some dissapointment, so not to be honest wouldn't be appropriate.

Compared to his earlier works, John Williams certainly isn't on that same level anymore, but, honestly, given the extraterrestrial niveau he delivered until well into the 90s couldn't last forever. The man is almost 80. I feel blessed that John Williams is still working.
And even on the niveau of Crystal Skull, which I enjoyed immensely by the way (score, not film), he is still better than 90% of all the others.
In what he does, he is still unmatched.
His music has an inherent ease to it, there is nothing that seems forced.

The thoughts of the producer summed up in one sentence: Williams couldn't write such crap if he tried.

And by the way, everyone against Williams should ask himself what Hooper's, as well as Doyle's scores would have sounded like if they hadn't had Williams' scores as a template.
Would Hedwig's Theme, the way Doyle used it (assuming for a second he would have come up with it in the first place), with the generic strings and the harmonisation, have become as famous as it is now?
Of Hooper's criminally underdeveloped use I don't even speak.

The point is, Hedwig's Theme would have never become so well-known and popular, had it received the pedestrian treatments of Doyle or Hooper.
Even in Doyle's surrounding of all new material, and even more so in Hooper's, Hedwig's Theme leaves the distinct impression of being more important than the others.

That distinguishes Williams from others: the knack for long-term memorability.

> I'd love to see Patrick Doyle back with the caveat that he does a better
> job incorporating Williams' key themes into the overall score. Whoever it
> is, they're going to have a heck of a task trying to put together
> something worthy of the final story. Most of important of all, they simply
> cannot continue to ignore "Hedwig's Theme," which remains the
> musical identity of the film series.

Um, who ignored Hedwig's Theme? It's more present in HBP that in PoA.

I think it's important to note that Hooper didn't do the orchestration. Check the liner notes.

> I don't think that qualifies as a "theme", and not merely
> because it's a variant, yet again, on Hedwig's theme, only this time
> played more tenderly; you see, a theme, that is, purely by definition,
> something specific and characteristic, and recognisable.
> Hooper's harp/guitar tingling is anything but specific. It sticks out like
> that only because the orchestrations are so extremely dire.

I've listened to "When Ginny Kissed Harry" ad nauseum at this point, and I can't hear any trace of "Hedwig's Theme" in it. I've listened to them back to back, I've even mashed them up. If the former is a variant of the latter, it's beyond any way that I can detect. (Corey, The same applies to "The Whomping Willow and the Snowball Fight" from the PoA soundtrack. )

I think it's at least intended as a love theme, it appears briefly in "Ginny" before Hedwig's theme kicks in. "Harry & Herminone" is also very similar, possibly a variant. Maybe it's just a generic theme of teen love, I don't know. These are the best parts of the score, in my opinion. They certainly convey the emotions of the film at the time they appear.

> The musical placements
> completely out of the blue had me thinking immediately, before I read the
> news, that Hooper won't come back.
> I assume you mean "Dumbledore's Army" over the tryouts.
> And I wonder, there is Umbridge's theme in "Living Death" - why?
> Lack of ideas?

Sorry, yes, "Dumbledore's Army." I get those two mixed up. Also, I *think* that's "Room of Requirement" in "Living Death," but I'm not sure. Since Hooper used those chimes (or xylophone, or whatever it is) in both pieces, it's tough to tell which he's calling on. "Room of Requirement" makes more sense thematically, though, since it's about learning magic.

> However, given how the end credits piece starts, in a VERY delicate
> manner, and it was Yates' order, or anybody else's, to put the Fireworks
> track in there, then that someone certainly didn't have musical
> sensibilities as well, since it really drove the audience out of the
> theatre for its complete lack of reflective qualities.

Just FYI, Williams did this too, in Revenge of the Sith. The end credits prominently feature "Throne Room/End Titles" from Star Wars, which makes zero sense in that movie as the bad guys just won. I blame George Lucas in that case.

I think you're overstating the effect of the score on the picture, but you do raise interesting questions about the music selection. With this movie sitting in the can for 8 months, if there really was some disagreement about the music, there was certainly time to change it.

> I mean, I just thought about the magnitude of this the other day ... Just
> look at the tremendous opportunity for this guy!
> Here you are, a television composer. And all of a sudden, you are signed
> to score maybe the hottest movie series today, and you are given not only
> a world chock full of characters, drama, places and first rate imagery for
> inspiration, but also a sack full of tested and approved, even famous,
> music by the most decorated film composer of the past 50 years to work
> with.
> And then you come up with ... this? Surely not?

Well, that's where I go back to Yates. You ever heard him speak? He's the ultimate soft-spoken, reserved Englishman. The films reflect that. Harry was way too subdued in "Order of the Phoenix," he's supposed to be dealing with a major bout of teen angst compounded by the smear campaign that's being waged against him, yet in the movie he comes across as only mildly annoyed. That's Yates' nature I think and Hooper's music reflects it.

> And by the way, everyone against Williams should ask himself what
> Hooper's, as well as Doyle's scores would have sounded like if they hadn't
> had Williams' scores as a template.
> Would Hedwig's Theme, the way Doyle used it (assuming for a second he
> would have come up with it in the first place), with the generic strings
> and the harmonisation, have become as famous as it is now?
> Of Hooper's criminally underdeveloped use I don't even speak.

I'm not necessarily against Williams, but his scores for the first two movies were very "kiddie" in parts (so were the movies, of course), and his idea of "magic" seemed to be the hocus-pocus variety, not the subtle powers of the final book. His use of Voldemort's theme for the diary scene in "Chamber of Secrets" was about as unsubtle as it gets. That music didn't belong there. I have no doubt that Williams *could* do a fantastic job on Deathly Hallows. I'm just not sure that he would. On the other hand, I was really wish I could have heard Fawke's theme in the battle music at the end of Order of the Phoenix.

As for Doyle, I think if Hedwig's Theme hadn't existed his music would have been much better received. His themes for Harry ("Harry In Winter" in album form) and Voldemort are fantastic and very memorable and I think they could have become an identity for the series on their own, if it didn't already have one. Hooper, I kind of doubt it, although I want to say that Umbridge's theme is absolutely perfect for that character.

> Even in Doyle's surrounding of all new material, and even more so in
> Hooper's, Hedwig's Theme leaves the distinct impression of being more
> important than the others.

Well, yeah, it's the title theme. What would Star Wars sound like without the Rebel Fanfare at the beginning of every movie?

> I've listened to "When Ginny Kissed Harry" ad nauseum at this
> point, and I can't hear any trace of "Hedwig's Theme" in it.
> I've listened to them back to back, I've even mashed them up. If the
> former is a variant of the latter, it's beyond any way that I can detect.
> (Corey, The same applies to "The Whomping Willow and the Snowball
> Fight" from the PoA soundtrack.)

It's not a direct statement of the theme - it's implied in both cases. Listen for the third, fourth, fifth, and sixth notes of Hedwig's Theme in particular.

> I think it's important to note that Hooper didn't do the orchestration.
> Check the liner notes.

Oh yes, I know.
But, you know, orchestrators can also just work with the sheet music they're given.

> I've listened to "When Ginny Kissed Harry" ad nauseum at this
> point, and I can't hear any trace of "Hedwig's Theme" in it.
> I've listened to them back to back, I've even mashed them up.

I just checked. I confused it with "Harry and Hermione". But, alas, bear with me ...

> I think it's at least intended as a love theme, it appears briefly in
> "Ginny" before Hedwig's theme kicks in. "Harry &
> Herminone" is also very similar, possibly a variant. Maybe it's just
> a generic theme of teen love, I don't know. These are the best parts of
> the score, in my opinion. They certainly convey the emotions of the film
> at the time they appear.

To me, it appears as if the whole track could be a good underlining counterpoint for a real theme ;P
Back to Hedwig's theme.
Check the sheet music of musicnotes.com! Check out "Ginny" from bar 7 (or also the bars before) onwards.
It is even more apparent in "Harry and Hermione", which is written in the same key as Hedwig's theme. Check it out from bar 12 onwards - Hooper just plays around with the notes of the theme.
And since the same variant on Hedwig is used for both, Ginny and Hermione, it can't really be a specific theme for either ...

> Sorry, yes, "Dumbledore's Army." I get those two mixed up. Also,
> I *think* that's "Room of Requirement" in "Living
> Death," but I'm not sure. Since Hooper used those chimes (or
> xylophone, or whatever it is) in both pieces, it's tough to tell which
> he's calling on. "Room of Requirement" makes more sense
> thematically, though, since it's about learning magic.

You could be right ... it sounds very Umbridge-y to me, but then, I never found her theme particulary noticeable.

> Just FYI, Williams did this too, in Revenge of the Sith. The end credits
> prominently feature "Throne Room/End Titles" from Star Wars,
> which makes zero sense in that movie as the bad guys just won. I blame
> George Lucas in that case.

Yes, well, that's certainly right, but, even if it wasn't particulary appropriate ideologically, it was at least in the tone of the film. And Williams didn't start the credits with it, people had the chance to enjoy a vintage Star Wars ending, with the Binary Sunset music and the Star Wars main title, followed by battle Of The Heroes, and to wind down.
But in Hooper's case, the movie just ended on a very low note, the audience is still in there, and suddenly you hear this Fireworks cue.

But if Hooper's choice for the credits was "The Weasley Stomp", both pieces don't really give or take much.

> I think you're overstating the effect of the score on the picture, but you
> do raise interesting questions about the music selection. With this movie
> sitting in the can for 8 months, if there really was some disagreement
> about the music, there was certainly time to change it.

And I also think this, concerning the credits once more, and also the Wizard Wheezes cue: both cues, Wizard Wheezes and the Weasley Stomp, are so similar in tone to what ended up as tracked music in the film, that the producers/editors could as well have picked either piece. So, why didn't they? Why did they go for tracked cues when original music, in exactly the same tone, was available?

The answer, I think, is obvious. The producers wanted different music in those cases, but Hooper didn't think it would be right that way, and Yates sided with him. After all, a composer doesn't have the power to stand against the suits alone (well, some might, but certainly not TV Guy).
So, in the end, to send a clear signal to Hooper as well as Yates, the producer took control and decided that, "if YOU don't want to comply, NONE of your music for this film will be used." So they used some OotP, and the Quidditch music didn't even get written, or past the written/mockup stage.

Hooper apparently doesn't know why his music didn't end up in the film. So, in the end, it might have been a fight between the producer and Yates over the music, without Hooper knowing much about it, and it was made very clear to Yates that he's fighting a losing battle.

> I'm not necessarily against Williams, but his scores for the first two
> movies were very "kiddie" in parts (so were the movies, of
> course), and his idea of "magic" seemed to be the hocus-pocus
> variety, not the subtle powers of the final book. His use of Voldemort's
> theme for the diary scene in "Chamber of Secrets" was about as
> unsubtle as it gets. That music didn't belong there.

But that is not really fair. You can't compare the music of CoS to possible music for DH - there are five books, and five years of development in between.
His approach to magic in CoS wouldn't fit the idea for magic in DH, simply because the kind of magic in CoS is not the same kind in DH.
You shouldn't compare a score Williams wrote in between a full schedule to a score he will write in the future, full time.
Those kinds of subtleties get lost in a hurry.

> As for Doyle, I think if Hedwig's Theme hadn't existed his music would
> have been much better received. His themes for Harry ("Harry In
> Winter" in album form) and Voldemort are fantastic and very memorable
> and I think they could have become an identity for the series on their
> own, if it didn't already have one. Hooper, I kind of doubt it, although I
> want to say that Umbridge's theme is absolutely perfect for that
> character.

I think Harry's theme in GoF is very good, it's just handled in such a dull way.

> Well, yeah, it's the title theme. What would Star Wars sound like without
> the Rebel Fanfare at the beginning of every movie?

Yes. But there are people who think Williams shouldn't have done Harry Potter in the first place. And that was my point in favour of Williams. Harry Potter films and scores wouldn't be where they are without Williams' pioneer spirit.

> By now you may or may not have heard, but Nicholas Hooper will not be back
> for Harry Potter & the Deathly Hallows. In the piece I read, he said
> he had dropped off the project, saying it impinged on his life and family
> too much. While I'm sure that's true, a couple of things make me think
> there might actually be more two it than that.

> In the Half-Blood Prince film, the scene at Fred and George's shop is
> covered with an exact reprise of "Fireworks" from "Order of
> the Phoenix." Curiously, this music doesn't appear on the soundtrack,
> but a different piece, "Wizard Wheezes," which was clearly
> written for this scene (it's the name of the shop) does. Why would the new
> piece (which is one of the memorable ones on the new score, really) be
> replaced by an old one by the man who composed it? Further,
> "Fireworks" appears again over the end credits, a wildly
> inappropriate placement of that music considering how dark things are when
> the movie ends. It smells like someone had issue with the music Hooper
> wrote and these changes were made because of that. (and I highly doubt it
> was David Yates)

> Less significant I suppose is the appearance of "Room of
> Requirement" during the quidditch tryouts, which also doesn't appear
> on the score album. As noted in the review, bits of that piece appear in
> "Living Death", but it's a full-out reprise in the later scene.
> There doesn't appear to be anything on the album that it replaced, though.
> Still, in combination with the appearance of "Fireworks," I have
> to wonder if the studio or producers were dictating changes, and Hooper
> didn't want to work under those conditions. Or the studio decided they
> wanted someone else, or some combination thereof.

> I think Hooper's music is quite good on its own and has some real beauty,
> but I agree that as the connective tissue for a film (series) this epic it
> lacks. There are no really memorable pieces on the Half-Blood Prince
> soundtrack (except possibly "Wizard Wheezes," as noted above.)
> The score for Order of the Phoenix had both the Umbridge and Room of
> Requirement/Dumbledore's Army themes, but this new score has virtually
> nothing that sticks with you like that. However, I do really like the love
> theme for Harry and Ginny and I hope the new composer sticks with it. It's
> very tender but tinged with sadness, which is precisely appropriate given
> the conditions under which their romance blossoms.

> I blame this in part at least on David Yates, whose forté as a director is
> clearly the smaller, more emotional parts, and who hasn't yet shown any
> aptitude for anything that is epic or action-oriented. He continues to
> treat the Harry Potter films as small character studies and had Hooper
> write music to that effect. Read the liner notes of the album and you'll
> see what I mean. (in fairness, Yates' treatment is exactly why all the
> character development in this film is so well done. It just hurts in other
> areas.)

> Producer David Heyman has stated they're trying to see if the schedules
> fits to get John Williams back for the two Deathly Hallows movies. I have
> some reservations about that. Having recently re-watched the first two
> movies, the music is really overdone. Some of that is no doubt
> attributable to Chris Columbus, but Williams to me has seemed past his
> prime for some time. His scores for "Revenge of the Sith" and
> "Kingdom of the Crystal Skulls" were pretty bad. The music for
> "Prisoner of Azkaban" was fantastic, but it also was a complete
> disconnect from the music from the prior two scores, and he mostly wrote
> it scene-to-scene rather than thematically (much like Hooper in that
> regard.)

> I'd love to see Patrick Doyle back with the caveat that he does a better
> job incorporating Williams' key themes into the overall score. Whoever it
> is, they're going to have a heck of a task trying to put together
> something worthy of the final story. Most of important of all, they simply
> cannot continue to ignore "Hedwig's Theme," which remains the
> musical identity of the film series.

i'm sorry Patrick Doyle did what? are you kidding me? Doyle's score never quoted any of Williams themes or motifs, there was a half assed version of Hedwig's theme in the opening but that was it

Hooper's superior scores not only quotes the themes, but even remembered the brass motif from the Quidditch match from the 3rd movie.

i am so sick of all this Hooper bashing. why don't you guys form a club and hang and piss on the score all day, because it seems that's all you people love to do

> i'm sorry Patrick Doyle did what? are you kidding me? Doyle's score never
> quoted any of Williams themes or motifs, there was a half assed version of
> Hedwig's theme in the opening but that was it

You're right on that one. But apparently you missed a few examples. Hedwig is played over the titles, on the Hogwarts Express, when Ron's owl flies in bringing his dress robes, not to mention the lovely rendition in "Voldemort" that was cut from the movie, and the end titles.
You may not have recognised those, but that's indeed what thematic variation means.

> Hooper's superior scores not only quotes the themes, but even remembered
> the brass motif from the Quidditch match from the 3rd movie.

Excuse me, which themes did Hooper quote? Tell me. I can answer for you: he quoted as much as Doyle, and that is NONE! He used Hedwig's theme, in almost the exact Williams rendition. That in itself doesn't do the music justice, since not even Williams himself would have quoted Hedwig's theme in exactly the same fashion as in Philosopher's Stone.

He "remembered" the Quidditch brass motif because Prisoner Of Azkaban is the only Potter score Hooper listened to before writing for the series.
And apparently, he didn't listen careful enough; or he simply doesn't have the musical wits for realising that this motif is actually a variant on Double Trouble, which is the main theme for PoA, and had therefor nothing to lose in Half-Blood Prince.

> i am so sick of all this Hooper bashing. why don't you guys form a club
> and hang and piss on the score all day, because it seems that's all you
> people love to do

Well, step into a corner and cry then.
Calling people names has seldomly lead them to re-evaluate their point of view.

> You're right on that one. But apparently you missed a few examples. Hedwig
> is played over the titles, on the Hogwarts Express, when Ron's owl flies
> in bringing his dress robes, not to mention the lovely rendition in
> "Voldemort" that was cut from the movie, and the end titles.
> You may not have recognised those, but that's indeed what thematic
> variation means.

> Excuse me, which themes did Hooper quote? Tell me. I can answer for you:
> he quoted as much as Doyle, and that is NONE! He used Hedwig's theme, in
> almost the exact Williams rendition. That in itself doesn't do the music
> justice, since not even Williams himself would have quoted Hedwig's theme
> in exactly the same fashion as in Philosopher's Stone.

> He "remembered" the Quidditch brass motif because Prisoner Of
> Azkaban is the only Potter score Hooper listened to before writing for the
> series.
> And apparently, he didn't listen careful enough; or he simply doesn't have
> the musical wits for realising that this motif is actually a variant on
> Double Trouble, which is the main theme for PoA, and had therefor nothing
> to lose in Half-Blood Prince.

> Well, step into a corner and cry then.
> Calling people names has seldomly lead them to re-evaluate their point of
> view.

i don't remember calling anyone a name but good luck to you all with your Hooper hating, that is till the next Zimmer or one of his clones releases a score then you'll all pounce on that. or for the really pretentious ones wait for an Elfman score to come out with a theme then pretend there is no theme.

but i'm still a fan of yours Mr. Kroener, and i will always read your excellent reviews on amazon. later

> i don't remember calling anyone a name but good luck to you all with your
> Hooper hating, that is till the next Zimmer or one of his clones releases
> a score then you'll all pounce on that. or for the really pretentious ones
> wait for an Elfman score to come out with a theme then pretend there is no
> theme.

Wait ... I don't know if you're referring to me, but over the last three weeks, I have put forth numerous reasons, and valid points, why I think Hooper's score is crap, and I have explained it in as much depth as I could.
That does not qualify as "Hooper hating".

If you choose to ignore my points, fine ...

You didn't call anyone names, but you explicitly said, or heavily implied, that "people" hate Hooper for the sheer fun of it.
People do not hate his music for the sake of it, just like you don't appreciate it just for its own sake, and it would be rude to say so.

> Wait ... I don't know if you're referring to me, but over the last three
> weeks, I have put forth numerous reasons, and valid points, why I think
> Hooper's score is crap, and I have explained it in as much depth as I
> could.
> That does not qualify as "Hooper hating".

> If you choose to ignore my points, fine ...

> You didn't call anyone names, but you explicitly said, or heavily implied,
> that "people" hate Hooper for the sheer fun of it.
> People do not hate his music for the sake of it, just like you don't
> appreciate it just for its own sake, and it would be rude to say so.

I have read your review *more than once* and yes you do lay out your points very well about why you don't like the score. I do prefer that to if you had hated it and not given a good reason why. but that comment wasn't aimed at you, it was all the rush of Hooper bashing nowadays to a score I don't feel deserves that much venom.

but that's my opinion, others have different. such is life, and we move on