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thematic analysis

kurt
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(63.226.28.130)


  Responses to this Comment:
simiesque
Magpie
thematic analysis   Thursday, October 2, 2003 (7:54 a.m.) 

this is an analysis of all of the themes i could identify within the body of the first lord of the rings movie. i don't claim this to be complete, as there are so many themes i could easily have missed some or misidentified some.

Thematic Analysis Of The Fellowship of the Ring

The Lothlorien Theme
An exotic, choral theme, used to represent Galadriel and the Woods Of Lothlórien
The lyrics are an elvish poem called “A Elbereth Gilthoniel” The General lyrics are as follows:
Chorus in Sindarin
A Elbereth Gilthoniel,
silivren penna miriel
o menel aglar elenath,
na-chaered palan diriel
o galadhremmin ennorath
nef aear, sí aearon,
Fanluilos, le linnathon
Nef aear, sí aearon!
'O Elbereth Star-kindler,
(white) glittering slants-down sparkling-like-jewels
from firmament glory [of] the star-host,
to-remote-distance after-having-gazed
from tree-tangled middle-lands,
on-this-side [of] ocean, here [on this side of] the Great Ocean,
Fanuilos, to thee I will chant
on-this-side [of] ocean, here [on this side of] the Great Ocean!'

The One Ring Theme
A mysterious, sad theme, often played in the movie to track the journey of the Ring and it affects if Sauron ever were to reclaim it.

Danger motif
An alternating, high-low two-note motif, played when the forces of good are endangered.

The Mordor theme
An evil, devilish theme, played on high strings, very threatening. Used thrice in the movie.

Ringwraith (Nazgûl) theme
A Gothic Choral theme, sung in an ancient tongue of man, full of terror and fear, and complemented by bold brass and tense under-strings, occasionally used as a theme for the rings power, and accompanied by a secondary motif similar to the danger motif. General lyrics are as follows:
Chorus in Adûnaic:
Nêbâbîtham Magânanê
Nêtabdam dâurad
Nêpâm nêd abârat-aglar
îdô Nidir nênâkham
Bârî 'n Katharâd
'We deny our maker.
We cling to the darkness.
We grasp for ourselves power and glory.
Now we come, the Nine,
Lords of Eternal Life.

Gollum’s theme
An evil, slithering string theme, but while also sounding evil, also sounds pitiable and sad.
Used to represent Gollum when he is discussed or on screen.

Journey motif
A short simple, traveling theme, used whenever The quest is discussed or foreshadowed, or when a group is traveling

The Shire theme
A slightly Celtic theme, often played on wood flutes, other times on string and horn, used to represent the hobbits and the Shire.

Frodo’s theme
Extremely similar to the Shire theme, nearly indistinguishable, so much so that I assign it according to it’s use in the movie.

The Ring Seduction Theme
A mysterious, seductive, choral theme, used to represent the temptation of the power of the Ring

The Fellowship theme
A Grand, heroic theme, often played on brass, used in it’s fragmentary form when the fellowship begins to form: when Sam leaves the cornfield, when Merry and Pippin show up and roll down a hill, and when Strider (Aragorn) joins the group. As the Fellowship forms at the council of Elrond, it is used in a brassy, grand statement, and similarly when the leave Rivendell, are seen on a mountain trail, as they run for the bridge after defeating the cave troll, and after Aragorn and Frodo leap onto the edge of the stairs as the section behind them falls. After Gandalf falls, you only hear it in its fragmentary form again, this time saddened by the loss, and is heard on the great river and after Boromir dies.

Isengard theme
A large, threatening evil theme, off-kilter, played on trombone and hammer, used to represent Saruman, his fortified Isengard, his Uruk-hai, and his forest killing “development”

Nature theme
A high choral motif, played when the moth finds Gandalf on top of the tower of Orthanc.
General lyrics are as follows:
Chorus in Sindarin
Rithannen i geven
thangen i harn
na fennas i daur
ôl dûr ristannen
eryn echuiannen
i ngelaidh dagrar
ristar thynd, cúa tawar
dambedir enyd i ganed
si linna i 'waew trin 'ylf
Isto i dur i chuiyl
i ngelaidh dagrar
'Earth shakes
Stone breaks
The forest [is] at [your] door
The dark sleep is broken
The woods have awoken
The trees have gone to war
Roots rend, wood bends
The Ents have answered the call
Through branches now the wind sings
Feel the power of living things
The trees have gone to war'

Arwen’s theme
A high, slow, beautiful theme, used twice in the movie to represent the Arwen. General lyrics are as follows:
Chorus in Sindarin
Tinúviel elvanui
Elleth alfirin edhelhael
O hon ring finnil fuinui
A renc gelebrin thiliol...
'Tinúviel [the] elven-fair,
Immortal maiden elven-wise,
About him cast [her] night-dark hair,
And arms [like] silver glimmering...'

Rivendell theme
A beautiful choral motif, played twice in the movie, both times within rivendell. The same lyrics as Lothlórien.

Mt Doom
A very loud, harsh theme, mostly two high-lower notes with low brass and under-strings, used once in the movie when Isildur refuses to give up the Ring.

Gondor
A noble French horn theme, played when boromir speaks at the council, and when he speaks to araorn of the white tower in lothlorien.

Misty Mountain theme
A weary, 3-2-3 note theme, used to represent the mightiest mountain range in middle-earth

Dwarrowdelf theme
A loud, Khuzdûl chorus theme, with brass and strings, used for the mightiest stronghold of the dwarves
Used thrice in the movie, when Gandalf shows them the city with "more light",when gimli runs into the chamber of mazarbul and sees balin's tomb, and after the cave troll stabs Frodo

Balrog theme
A evil, threatening, foreboding theme, played on drums and brass, 5-5-4-4-4-1 notes, played when Gandalf stops on the bridge, and when the Balrog drags him down into the Abyss with him. Used to represent the Balrog or Morgoth and its power.

Aragorn’s theme
A noble brass motif, used thrice, (as far as i can tell) ,when Aragorn saves Boromir for a few seconds when he jumps out of the woods and kills Lurtz, when he jumps in to save frodo from the witchking, and when he jumps in to save him from the cave troll.

Narsil theme
another noble brass motif, sad, played when the sword gets broken in the prologue, and when boromir sees it and aragorn picks it up.

The Ring Verse:
Not really a true theme, but sung whenever the Ring is shown to have power away from Sauron, and when Saruman and Gandalf fight (because Saruman wants the Ring.) Also chanted by the ring itself occassionally General lyrics are as follows:
Chorus in Black Speech :
Shre nazg golugranu kilmi-nudu
Ombi kuzddurbagu gundum-ishi
Nugu gurunkilu bard gurutu
Ash Burz-Durbagu burzum-ishi [2:55-3:51]
Daghburz-ishi makha gulshu darulu.
[Ash nazg durbatulûk, ash nazg gimbatul,
ash nazg thrakatulûk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul]
Daghburz-ishi makha gulshu darulu.
Gû kîbum kelkum-ishi, burzum-ishi. Akha - gûm-ishi ashi gurum.
Nubin sherkuk, rakhizinash, matizinashûk, matizin Umbrûk.

'Three rings for-Elven-kings under-sky
Seven for-dwarf-lords in-halls
Nine for-mortals doomed to-die
One for-Dark-Lord in-darkness
in-Mordor where shadows lie.
[One Ring to-rule-them-all, One Ring to-find-them,
One Ring to-bring-them-all and in-the-Darkness bind-them]
in-Mordor where shadows lie.'
'There-is-no life in-the-cold, in-the-dark. Here - in-the-void only death.
I-smell your-blood. I-shall-devour-it, eat-it-all - eat-all the-world.'


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simiesque
(modemcable017.108-201-24.mtl.mc.v
ideotron.ca)

  In Response to:
kurt

  Responses to this Comment:
kurt
Re: thematic analysis   Tuesday, October 7, 2003 (3:28 a.m.) 

Wow, friend. I thought I was the only layperson who analysed Shore's music to this extent. Well met (*shake hands firmly*)

I'm still not sure of the "Frodo" theme, the "Narsil" theme and the "Journey" theme. Can you elaborate on certain examples of these themes (I swear I've listened to the music in that film times beyond count, and can't remember any real distinct theme for them).

Also, are you sure the Ring verse is played during the "Treason of Isengard"? Just to confirm, because I want to learn the lyrics right away...

Finally, isn't there also an "eagle" theme played when Gandalf escapes from Orthanc, or is that just a rendition of the "Nature" theme (because I really love that piece, and I'm really disappointed it didn't make it onto the album).

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kurt
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m)

  In Response to:
simiesque
Re: thematic analysis   Tuesday, October 7, 2003 (1:25 p.m.) 

> Wow, friend. I thought I was the only layperson who analysed Shore's music
> to this extent. Well met (*shake hands firmly*)

> I'm still not sure of the "Frodo" theme, the "Narsil"
> theme and the "Journey" theme. Can you elaborate on certain
> examples of these themes (I swear I've listened to the music in that film
> times beyond count, and can't remember any real distinct theme for them).
With Frodo's theme, i am sure that it is identical with the shire theme, but played on flute (at least mostly). the narsil theme is not on the soundtrack album, but i am sure i hear a distinct bit of music when it is broken and when they are in the narsil chamber. and the journey motif is on track 4 right after the "seduction motif" and the short brass that follows.

> Also, are you sure the Ring verse is played during the "Treason of
> Isengard"? Just to confirm, because I want to learn the lyrics right
> away...
yes. go to this site for all available lyrics: www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie.htm and click on soundtrack

> Finally, isn't there also an "eagle" theme played when Gandalf
> escapes from Orthanc, or is that just a rendition of the
> "Nature" theme (because I really love that piece, and I'm really
> disappointed it didn't make it onto the album).

i don't know about this. i wonder... i will check this out. if it is, i would venture to guess that it will be used in return of the king for the final sequence. interesting...


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Magpie
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k.net)

  In Response to:
kurt

  Responses to this Comment:
kurt
Magpie
Re: thematic analysis   Saturday, October 11, 2003 (10:17 a.m.) 

Kurt,

I am right now in the process of putting my soundtrack analysis on the web. (I'm happily learning how to use my new web page maker as I do so.) I was doing a quick search for something and stumbled across this thread. (I've never visited this site before.) I don't have time at the moment to thoroughly look over your analysis. But I think we may disagree just a little (which is good... that means I have someone to explain the things I'm unsure about. )

I will say this though. Fellowship of the Word-Smith http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie.htm is a wonderful, fantastic source of information. It got me started on this quest. But I wouldn't trust everything without verification (actually listening carefully to the lyrics yourself, I mean). I have corrected information they had, (kindly published and credited by Ryszard), I consider some information still there wrong, and I have found conflicting lyrics at Elfling http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling/ posted by Danijel Legin. I find Danijel's lyrics more credible (to my ears).

Anyway, if you bear with me while I compile myself , we could have a glorious conversation. I'm looking forward to it.

Magpie

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kurt
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m)

  In Response to:
Magpie

  Responses to this Comment:
Magpie
Re: thematic analysis   Monday, October 13, 2003 (7:23 a.m.) 

> Kurt,

> I am right now in the process of putting my soundtrack analysis on the
> web. (I'm happily learning how to use my new web page maker as I do so.) I
> was doing a quick search for something and stumbled across this thread.
> (I've never visited this site before.) I don't have time at the moment to
> thoroughly look over your analysis. But I think we may disagree just a
> little (which is good... that means I have someone to explain the things
> I'm unsure about. )

> I will say this though. Fellowship of the Word-Smith
> http://www.elvish.org/gwaith/movie.htm is a wonderful, fantastic source
> of information. It got me started on this quest. But I wouldn't trust
> everything without verification (actually listening carefully to the
> lyrics yourself, I mean). I have corrected information they had, (kindly
> published and credited by Ryszard), I consider some information still
> there wrong, and I have found conflicting lyrics at Elfling
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/elfling/ posted by Danijel Legin. I find
> Danijel's lyrics more credible (to my ears).

> Anyway, if you bear with me while I compile myself , we could have a
> glorious conversation. I'm looking forward to it.

> Magpie

well, i am as well. one thing though, if you are talking about the "treason of isengard" lyrics, the lyrics on gwaith are correct. Danijel Legin beleived that the Black Speech Lyric was in a reconstruction by julian bradfield, but salo, the linguist for the movie, responded after gwaith put these up, and said that he had reconstructed his own Black Speech for this lyric. i to, thought that Danijel's lyrics sounded more fitting, but after carefully listening, i think i have analyzed the lines sung:

Daghburz
Daghburz-ishi makha gulshu darulu
Ash Burz-Durbagu burzum-ishi
Daghburz-ishi makha gulshu darulu.
Ash Burz-Durbagu burzum-ishi

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Magpie
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k.net)

  In Response to:
kurt

  Responses to this Comment:
Kurt
Re: thematic analysis   Monday, October 13, 2003 (6:57 p.m.) 

Thanks, Kurt. I'll take a look and listen at those lyrics. They aren't ones I considered "incorrect", per se... since we can't really know for sure, can we? You said David Salo said he had reconstructed the lyrics but did he say they were *those* lyrics? See, I just always want more info. At least I know you listened. I suspect most people who say 'These are the lyrics' are just doing a copy and paste from somewhere and aren't really listening. I want someone who has listened and can maybe give me time stamps (she rubs her hands in anticipation).

I'll be out of town for about a week, but I'll get back to you. I've already started looking at your analysis. We agree on a lot. Some differences are just a matter of personal definitions and/or labels. And there's some things I'll need your help to 'buy' fully. I'd like to add your thoughts to my compilation... with proper credit and thanks. Would that be okay? I could let you preview anything you like.

Well... packing to do,
Magpie

> well, i am as well. one thing though, if you are talking about the
> "treason of isengard" lyrics, the lyrics on gwaith are correct.
> Danijel Legin beleived that the Black Speech Lyric was in a reconstruction
> by julian bradfield, but salo, the linguist for the movie, responded after
> gwaith put these up, and said that he had reconstructed his own Black
> Speech for this lyric. i to, thought that Danijel's lyrics sounded more
> fitting, but after carefully listening, i think i have analyzed the lines
> sung:

> Daghburz
Daghburz-ishi makha gulshu darulu
Ash Burz-Durbagu
> burzum-ishi
Daghburz-ishi makha gulshu darulu.
Ash Burz-Durbagu
> burzum-ishi


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Kurt
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m)

  In Response to:
Magpie

  Responses to this Comment:
Magpie
Re: thematic analysis   Tuesday, October 14, 2003 (6:56 a.m.) 

>You said David Salo said he had reconstructed the
>lyrics but did he say they were *those* lyrics? I want someone who has >listened and can maybe give me time stamps (she rubs her hands in >anticipation).

Yes, David Salo provided those lyrics to Gwaith. If by time stamps you mean track times, I can give those to you whenever you like, for the ones on the album.

> I'll be out of town for about a week, but I'll get back to you. I've
> already started looking at your analysis. We agree on a lot. Some
> differences are just a matter of personal definitions and/or labels. And
> there's some things I'll need your help to 'buy' fully. I'd like to add
> your thoughts to my compilation... with proper credit and thanks. Would
> that be okay? I could let you preview anything you like.

Sure, that would be fine. I would like a few previews, as I may change my mind on a few things,(possibly) from doing more listening.

> Well... packing to do

Have A Good Trip!

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Magpie
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k.net)

  In Response to:
Kurt

  Responses to this Comment:
kurt
Re: thematic analysis   Tuesday, October 14, 2003 (4:18 p.m.) 

This is a time stamp:
(from Many Meetings)
[00:03] A EL
[00:06] BERETH
[00:07] GIL
[00:14] THON
[00:19] IEL,
[00:20] SILI
[00:24] VREN
[00:28] PEN
[00:31] NA
[00:35] MÍR
[00:38] IEL

I have a lyrics program (works with mp3s) that stamps a time on lyrics. I click on the line when I hear it in the music and the program adds the time.

You could do it by ear and watching the counter on your audio player, but that's a bit of work.

I haven't gone back to listen to the lyrics we were discussing yet (was it from Treason of Isengard?). But if they're the ones from GiP then I've probably already listened and can't hear them. By 'can't hear them' I mean, I don't hear the phonetic sounds that match the lyrics. I hear an 's' when there is no 's' in the lyrics, for example. I also can't hear 'A Elbereth' in any of the Lorien music (and there are two parts with lyrics: entering Lorien and climbing the stairs... the lament for Gandalf I've got) nor can I hear The Ents lyrics you quoted in the moth music. Since HS doesn't necessarily phrase things by the 'word' it can be difficult to tell how fast or slow things are progressing. OH if he would just provide a score with lyrics for it all.

I have typed up a quickish response to your theme post. Would you like it here or by email?

I leave town Thur morning and may be back online by Sunday night. If not, it'll be late afternoon Monday.

> Yes, David Salo provided those lyrics to Gwaith. If by time stamps you
> mean track times, I can give those to you whenever you like, for the ones
> on the album.

> Sure, that would be fine. I would like a few previews, as I may change my
> mind on a few things,(possibly) from doing more listening.

> Have A Good Trip!


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kurt
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m)

  In Response to:
Magpie
Re: thematic analysis   Wednesday, October 15, 2003 (6:54 a.m.) 

> This is a time stamp:
(from Many Meetings)
[00:03] A EL
>
[00:06] BERETH
[00:07] GIL
[00:14] THON
[00:19] IEL,
>
[00:20] SILI
[00:24] VREN
[00:28] PEN
[00:31] NA
>
[00:35] MÍR
[00:38] IEL

> I have a lyrics program (works with mp3s) that stamps a time on lyrics. I
> click on the line when I hear it in the music and the program adds the
> time.

> You could do it by ear and watching the counter on your audio player, but
> that's a bit of work.
Yeah, i'll have to do that, because i don't have a stamping program.

> I haven't gone back to listen to the lyrics we were discussing yet (was it
> from Treason of Isengard?). But if they're the ones from GiP then I've
> probably already listened and can't hear them. By 'can't hear them' I
> mean, I don't hear the phonetic sounds that match the lyrics. I hear an
> 's' when there is no 's' in the lyrics, for example. I also can't hear 'A
> Elbereth' in any of the Lorien music (and there are two parts with lyrics:
> entering Lorien and climbing the stairs... the lament for Gandalf I've
> got) nor can I hear The Ents lyrics you quoted in the moth music. Since HS
> doesn't necessarily phrase things by the 'word' it can be difficult to
> tell how fast or slow things are progressing. OH if he would just provide
> a score with lyrics for it all.

With the Lorien Theme, the lyrics are distorted to give it a highly exotic sound, and are continued with both parts. with the ent lyrics, i have not deciphered the exact lyrics, but i DO hear "rithannen". it is also possible that the lyrics are fragmentary, like the wraith lyrics from tracks 5,6,7, and 8. (on 3 they are whole.)

> I have typed up a quickish response to your theme post. Would you like it
> here or by email?

I guess by E-mail. this thread is getting pretty long. (although not like that trailer thread below)

> I leave town Thur morning and may be back online by Sunday night. If not,
> it'll be late afternoon Monday.

I look forward to it.

Kurt



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Magpie
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k.net)

  In Response to:
Magpie
Re: thematic analysis   Wednesday, November 5, 2003 (7:26 p.m.) 

My website is now up at www.geocities.com/a_magpies_nest

Check the discussion page to find out where a discussion about the themes is now happening.

~Magpie

> Kurt,

> I am right now in the process of putting my soundtrack analysis on the
> web. (I'm happily learning how to use my new web page maker as I do so.) I
> was doing a quick search for something and stumbled across this thread.
> (I've never visited this site before.) I don't have time at the moment to
> thoroughly look over your analysis. But I think we may disagree just a
> little (which is good... that means I have someone to explain the things
> I'm unsure about. )

> Anyway, if you bear with me while I compile myself , we could have a
> glorious conversation. I'm looking forward to it.

> Magpie


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