I like reading comments here from people who actually have music backgrounds. They're saying what JERRY GOLDSMITH, JOHN DEBNEY, and many truly talented composers have been saying for years:

ZIMMER IS A HACK. A one-trick pony.

It looks like Filmtracks has figured it out too.

> I like reading comments here from people who actually have music
> backgrounds. They're saying what JERRY GOLDSMITH, JOHN DEBNEY, and many
> truly talented composers have been saying for years:

> ZIMMER IS A HACK. A one-trick pony.

I just want to ask how much Zimmer you've actually listened to, cuz I fail to believe you can think that all Zimmer stuff is similar. Yes, he created the Media Ventures/Remote Control style, but he's been able to continue it quite effectively.

And I don't know if truly talented is the right word here...certainly more talented. Debney, Goldsmith, williams, Elfman, Horner, Arnold (this is not in order of preference)...the list could probably go on, but Zimmer has still proved to be a pretty good composer. He just also happens to be one who refuses to break the mold that often.

Plus, Spielberg likes him!

> It looks like Filmtracks has figured it out too.

or not.

> I just want to ask how much Zimmer you've actually listened to, cuz I fail
> to believe you can think that all Zimmer stuff is similar.

He never said it was.

> Yes, he created the Media Ventures/Remote Control style, but he's been
> able to continue it quite effectively.

No doubt about that.

> And I don't know if truly talented is the right word here...certainly more
> talented. Debney, Goldsmith, williams, Elfman, Horner, Arnold (this is not
> in order of preference)...the list could probably go on, but Zimmer has
> still proved to be a pretty good composer.

Not to the musical community. Think about it.

(Message edited on Sunday, June 17, 2007, at 5:43 a.m.)

> He never said it was.

Hack and one-trick pony imply it

> Not to the musical community. Think about it.

I'm confused...how does Zimmer not get recognized as an actual composer in the musical community. He's one of the biggest names, he's written some damn good music on occasion, he's got an oscar (a terrible measuring stick, but still)...I could go on but each point would get weaker, but you get the idea.

It would be interesting to see these criticisms though. Maybe Goldsmith's mad cuz he was never really "popular" despite his excellence yet Hans gets there with weaker music in some cases. Maybe Debney's mad cuz he never hit it big. I don't know and don't want to keep speculating.

> I'm confused...how does Zimmer not get recognized as an actual composer in
> the musical community. He's one of the biggest names,

Because his music is fun, acessible and appealing to the masses. He´s very requested by producers.

> he's got an oscar (a terrible measuring stick, but still)...

I think it was you who mentioned Santaolalla?

> I could go on but each point would get weaker, but you get the idea.

Please go on. Find me one composer or a musical institution who praised Zimmer´s work.

> Maybe Debney's mad cuz he
> never hit it big.

Cutthroat Island? Bigger than anything Zimmer wrote. Wanna compare it to the Pirates? Also Passion of Christ sold as much as Gladiator.

(Message edited on Monday, June 18, 2007, at 2:39 a.m.)

> Because his music is fun, acessible and appealing to the masses. He´s very
> requested by producers.

> I think it was you who mentioned Santaolalla?

yeah, the terrible measuring stick add-on was my way of saying that scoring oscars mean nothing and are almost never right.

> Please go on. Find me one composer or a musical institution who praised
> Zimmer´s work.

Outside of his "products", I doubt it, but I'll look.

> Cutthroat Island? Bigger than anything Zimmer wrote. Wanna compare it to
> the Pirates? Also Passion of Christ sold as much as Gladiator.

Ummm...you seem to think I'd put At World's End above Cutthroat Island? HECK NO...Pirates 3 is entertaining and quite good in some parts for me, but it's no better than a four-star score. Every time track 12 starts I want to chuck the disk against the wall for how much it sounds EXACTLY (not just similar, exactly) like King Arthur, right down to the stupid rolling string line. Cutthroat Island constantly bounces around different places amongst my top three scores (the other two being the complete recordings of Fellowship and Two Towers). There is no convincing argument that can be mounted about how Pirates of the Caribbean music (any of the scores) could be superior in any way to Cutthroat Island, save maybe for record sales (about as good a measuring stick as the scoring oscar). Here's my "comparison": Pirates music can be entertaining though derivative, with improvements in each film. Cutthroat Island is a classic, much more entertaining, and will just blow you away. End of discussion. There is no quality argument that can challenge that, though I dare that drum major fan girl who posted on some pirates soundtrack forum (think it was the first one) to try it simply so I can get a laugh.

As for the Passion argument, I was originally shocked, but taking the religious aspect into account...not surprised at all.