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Eternals score is MUCH better in the film

jjstarA113
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Riley KZ
chollman
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Eric
Steven P.
AntonioE1778
Craig Richard Lysy
Eternals score is MUCH better in the film   Monday, November 8, 2021 (7:45 a.m.) 

A LOT of the thematic development (especially of the main Eternals theme), action music, and some very charming fantasy stuff is just not on the album, which favors the slow, dramatic, and brooding parts of the score. There's even one use of the main theme that was really funny and that I won't spoil. Out of all the Marvel scores that get absurdly-long digital soundtrack records, why didn't this get one? And even with a 2½-hour runtime, how did Djawadi and co. land on THIS 65 minutes of music to include on the album? The non-chronological presentation also robs the soundtrack of any sort of narrative flow, which makes for a dull listening experience.

This is why whenever you guys complain about albums being too long I roll my eyes, cuz I remember when it was all too common for scores to have short soundtracks or go by unreleased. Y'all sound spoiled when you want soundtracks to be shorter, when what you really should be asking for is that scores nowadays be BETTER.


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Riley KZ
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jjstarA113

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AntonioE1778
Re: Eternals score is MUCH better in the film   Monday, November 8, 2021 (8:02 a.m.) 

> A LOT of the thematic development (especially of the main Eternals theme),
> action music, and some very charming fantasy stuff is just not on the
> album, which favors the slow, dramatic, and brooding parts of the score.
> There's even one use of the main theme that was really funny and that I
> won't spoil. Out of all the Marvel scores that get absurdly-long digital
> soundtrack records, why didn't this get one? And even with a 2½-hour
> runtime, how did Djawadi and co. land on THIS 65 minutes of music to
> include on the album? The non-chronological presentation also robs the
> soundtrack of any sort of narrative flow, which makes for a dull listening
> experience.

> This is why whenever you guys complain about albums being too long I roll
> my eyes, cuz I remember when it was all too common for scores to have
> short soundtracks or go by unreleased. Y'all sound spoiled when you want
> soundtracks to be shorter, when what you really should be asking for is
> that scores nowadays be BETTER.

I was worried about that - I liked the score a lot, but when it was over I was wondering if the movie itself really did have that little action and heroic use of that great main Eternals theme.

Fingers crossed for a longer release, then -- and like you said, it's ironic to be saying that, considering one of my complaints about Black Widow was that it felt too long. Stupid me.


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Mephariel
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Riley KZ
Re: Eternals score is MUCH better in the film   Monday, November 8, 2021 (8:16 a.m.) 

I love the score on album. One of my favorites so far this year.


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Chris R.
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Riley KZ
Re: Eternals score is MUCH better in the film   Monday, November 8, 2021 (9:22 a.m.) 

> I was worried about that - I liked the score a lot, but when it was over I
> was wondering if the movie itself really did have that little action and
> heroic use of that great main Eternals theme.

It really doesn't have that many action set pieces, 3 if I remember correctly. In film, it really does make the heroic version the Eternals theme way better.



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AntonioE1778
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Riley KZ
Re: Eternals score is MUCH better in the film   Tuesday, November 9, 2021 (6:56 a.m.) 

> I was worried about that - I liked the score a lot, but when it was over I
> was wondering if the movie itself really did have that little action and
> heroic use of that great main Eternals theme.

> Fingers crossed for a longer release, then -- and like you said, it's
> ironic to be saying that, considering one of my complaints about Black
> Widow was that it felt too long. Stupid me.

Maybe I need to watch the film again, but I really didn't notice any really punchy action music. It seemed to all be long-lined and slow while also big and dramatic.

I would love a longer release, but I just don't know what that would offer in terms of action music.


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chollman
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jjstarA113
Re: Eternals score is MUCH better in the film   Monday, November 8, 2021 (9:48 a.m.) 

> A LOT of the thematic development (especially of the main Eternals theme),
> action music, and some very charming fantasy stuff is just not on the
> album, which favors the slow, dramatic, and brooding parts of the score.
> There's even one use of the main theme that was really funny and that I
> won't spoil. Out of all the Marvel scores that get absurdly-long digital
> soundtrack records, why didn't this get one? And even with a 2½-hour
> runtime, how did Djawadi and co. land on THIS 65 minutes of music to
> include on the album? The non-chronological presentation also robs the
> soundtrack of any sort of narrative flow, which makes for a dull listening
> experience.

> This is why whenever you guys complain about albums being too long I roll
> my eyes, cuz I remember when it was all too common for scores to have
> short soundtracks or go by unreleased. Y'all sound spoiled when you want
> soundtracks to be shorter, when what you really should be asking for is
> that scores nowadays be BETTER.

Haven't seen the film (but I kind of want to, this is the first Marvel movie that I want to see since the second Ant-Man), but I just gave the score it's first listen and absolutely loved it. I cannot believe Djawadi wrote this. It's grand, majestic, emotional...just fantastic stuff. Will definitely be returning to it, maybe even right now.


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ArborArcanist
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jjstarA113

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jjstarA113
Re: Eternals score is MUCH better in the film   Monday, November 8, 2021 (9:49 a.m.) 

> A LOT of the thematic development (especially of the main Eternals theme),
> action music, and some very charming fantasy stuff is just not on the
> album, which favors the slow, dramatic, and brooding parts of the score.
> There's even one use of the main theme that was really funny and that I
> won't spoil. Out of all the Marvel scores that get absurdly-long digital
> soundtrack records, why didn't this get one? And even with a 2½-hour
> runtime, how did Djawadi and co. land on THIS 65 minutes of music to
> include on the album? The non-chronological presentation also robs the
> soundtrack of any sort of narrative flow, which makes for a dull listening
> experience.

Ah, crap…

> This is why whenever you guys complain about albums being too long I roll
> my eyes, cuz I remember when it was all too common for scores to have
> short soundtracks or go by unreleased. Y'all sound spoiled when you want
> soundtracks to be shorter, when what you really should be asking for is
> that scores nowadays be BETTER.

I mean, does anybody actually need the Art and Soul of Dune?


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jjstarA113
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Re: Eternals score is MUCH better in the film   Monday, November 8, 2021 (1:50 p.m.) 

> I mean, does anybody actually need the Art and Soul of Dune?

But again, my point was you should want the music to be better and justify having a long runtime (which admittedly a lot of soundtracks don't), instead of asking that record labels leave out large swathes of the work, or else you'll end up with situations like Eternals where certain highlights of the score are missing. An analogy would be like if an action movie had bad action scenes: would you rather they just cut out all the action scenes, or that the action be well-shot, well-choreographed, and story-driven?

I mean, the obvious solution to this conundrum is to give every score a well-curated "standard" edition and a more comprehensive "deluxe" edition, but it seems like THAT rarely happens eye rolling.


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Soundtracker94
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jjstarA113
Re: Eternals score is MUCH better in the film   Monday, November 8, 2021 (10:04 a.m.) 

> This is why whenever you guys complain about albums being too long I roll
> my eyes, cuz I remember when it was all too common for scores to have
> short soundtracks or go by unreleased. Y'all sound spoiled when you want
> soundtracks to be shorter, when what you really should be asking for is
> that scores nowadays be BETTER.

But not everything needs everything released from it. Even some of my favorite older scores I prefer the shorter album presentation over the entire work. What we really need is better album presentation, which sometimes means the complete score, or more typically just better selections from the work as a whole. But again, all of this is rather subjective on what makes a "better presentation" as there have been some composer curated albums that I really haven't cared for yet love the score in-film.

So... umm.... OH YEAH?!?!!????

wink


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Eric
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jjstarA113
Re: Eternals score is MUCH better in the film   Monday, November 8, 2021 (12:43 p.m.) 

> A LOT of the thematic development (especially of the main Eternals theme),
> action music, and some very charming fantasy stuff is just not on the
> album, which favors the slow, dramatic, and brooding parts of the score.
> There's even one use of the main theme that was really funny and that I
> won't spoil. Out of all the Marvel scores that get absurdly-long digital
> soundtrack records, why didn't this get one? And even with a 2½-hour
> runtime, how did Djawadi and co. land on THIS 65 minutes of music to
> include on the album? The non-chronological presentation also robs the
> soundtrack of any sort of narrative flow, which makes for a dull listening
> experience.

> This is why whenever you guys complain about albums being too long I roll
> my eyes, cuz I remember when it was all too common for scores to have
> short soundtracks or go by unreleased. Y'all sound spoiled when you want
> soundtracks to be shorter, when what you really should be asking for is
> that scores nowadays be BETTER.

Okay, I think I have a cake-and-eat-it-too solution. The Living Daylights released an expanded album with the original album as the first half, and then all the rest after that. They also printed the chronological order in the liner notes. How about we adapt this: you get the 27.5 hours of music written for the film, BUT the first disc or tape or USB stick or streamotron3000* is the highlights and the additional discs/tapes/streamerinos* is the rest.
That way, nobody complains that not enough was released, but there also aren't the complaints that albums have to be self-edited to get a decent listening experience. I'll take my Nobel Peace Prize now.

*I don't stream my music.


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Steven P.
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jjstarA113

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Faleel
jjstarA113
JB11sos
I'm afraid I need to disagree   Monday, November 8, 2021 (2:58 p.m.) 
• Now Playing: Eternals - Djawadi  

> A LOT of the thematic development (especially of the main Eternals theme),
> action music, and some very charming fantasy stuff is just not on the
> album, which favors the slow, dramatic, and brooding parts of the score.
> There's even one use of the main theme that was really funny and that I
> won't spoil. Out of all the Marvel scores that get absurdly-long digital
> soundtrack records, why didn't this get one? And even with a 2½-hour
> runtime, how did Djawadi and co. land on THIS 65 minutes of music to
> include on the album? The non-chronological presentation also robs the
> soundtrack of any sort of narrative flow, which makes for a dull listening
> experience.

> This is why whenever you guys complain about albums being too long I roll
> my eyes, cuz I remember when it was all too common for scores to have
> short soundtracks or go by unreleased. Y'all sound spoiled when you want
> soundtracks to be shorter, when what you really should be asking for is
> that scores nowadays be BETTER.

You may be right, but the score seemed very undermixed (a problem I have with a lot of MCU films) that even as I was trying to pay attention to the music, it barely registered with me with the exception of a couple of scenes.

It could be that maybe just the theater I was in was having an issue, but this is the same building where I saw No Time To Die and I didn't have that problem. Plus, the songs in the film seemed to sound fine. I'm not in love with the Dune score, but at least that allowed for moments for the music to shine while not burying buried in sound effects, but I didn't get that from this film.

As to your first point, it's really odd that TV shows seem to get an abundance of music being released, but films are still limited. Why did this philosophy of releasing every note only extend to shows, and not films?


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Faleel
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Steven P.
Re: I'm afraid I need to disagree   Monday, November 8, 2021 (4:27 p.m.) 

> You may be right, but the score seemed very undermixed (a problem I have
> with a lot of MCU films) that even as I was trying to pay attention to the
> music, it barely registered with me with the exception of a couple of
> scenes.

> It could be that maybe just the theater I was in was having an issue, but
> this is the same building where I saw No Time To Die and I didn't have
> that problem. Plus, the songs in the film seemed to sound fine. I'm not in
> love with the Dune score, but at least that allowed for moments for the
> music to shine while not burying buried in sound effects, but I didn't get
> that from this film.

> As to your first point, it's really odd that TV shows seem to get an
> abundance of music being released, but films are still limited. Why did
> this philosophy of releasing every note only extend to shows, and not
> films?

Maybe because Shows have more music, and are in seasons.



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jjstarA113
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Steven P.
Re: I'm afraid I need to disagree   Monday, November 8, 2021 (4:50 p.m.) 

> You may be right, but the score seemed very undermixed (a problem I have
> with a lot of MCU films) that even as I was trying to pay attention to the
> music, it barely registered with me with the exception of a couple of
> scenes.

> It could be that maybe just the theater I was in was having an issue, but
> this is the same building where I saw No Time To Die and I didn't have
> that problem. Plus, the songs in the film seemed to sound fine. I'm not in
> love with the Dune score, but at least that allowed for moments for the
> music to shine while not burying buried in sound effects, but I didn't get
> that from this film.

> As to your first point, it's really odd that TV shows seem to get an
> abundance of music being released, but films are still limited. Why did
> this philosophy of releasing every note only extend to shows, and not
> films?

I watched Eternals in IMAX, and IMAX has some pretty high standards in terms of visual and audio quality in their cinemas, so maybe that's why the music was easier for me to hear? I've certainly have had that problem of the score being too quiet (The Boss Baby 2 comes to mind), but I think that usually happens in standard cinemas that may have speakers of dubious quality.

If I were to take a guess, maybe with modern TV show soundtracks, record labels feel the need to encapsulate the music of each episode with at *least* the thoroughness that a movie soundtrack would typically encapsulate the score of its movie, so they'll try to give each episode an EP or even an LP album. But yeah, if shows can get such opulent treatment, why not longer films like Eternals?


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Steven P.
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jjstarA113
Re: I'm afraid I need to disagree   Monday, November 8, 2021 (6:55 p.m.) 

> I watched Eternals in IMAX, and IMAX has some pretty high standards in
> terms of visual and audio quality in their cinemas, so maybe that's why
> the music was easier for me to hear? I've certainly have had that problem
> of the score being too quiet (The Boss Baby 2 comes to mind), but I think
> that usually happens in standard cinemas that may have speakers of dubious
> quality.

Yeah, that could very well be the case. I saw Dune in IMAX and the sound and music were presented quite well.

> If I were to take a guess, maybe with modern TV show soundtracks, record
> labels feel the need to encapsulate the music of each episode with at
> *least* the thoroughness that a movie soundtrack would typically
> encapsulate the score of its movie, so they'll try to give each episode an
> EP or even an LP album. But yeah, if shows can get such opulent treatment,
> why not longer films like Eternals?

I wonder how much the composer gets a say in this matter. If some want an album for their work at 1 hour, or if some want complete releases.


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JB11sos
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Steven P.
Re: I'm afraid I need to disagree   Tuesday, November 9, 2021 (5:44 a.m.) 

> As to your first point, it's really odd that TV shows seem to get an
> abundance of music being released, but films are still limited. Why did
> this philosophy of releasing every note only extend to shows, and not
> films?

As with anything these days, I'm sure it's a business decision. Shows are marketed and released over time and the score releases help drive ongoing attention and interest, while films have their one moment in the spotlight at release and then fade out of the cultural conversation (at least from a money-making perspective).

That's also why this new approach to multiple album releases is mostly happening before or very close to the the release of the film. It's just another component of the marketing strategy. And for a composer like Zimmer, trying to maximize the impact on his own "brand," all the attention comes during the lead-up to and first few weeks of release, after which people have moved on.



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AntonioE1778
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jjstarA113
Re: Eternals score is MUCH better in the film   Tuesday, November 9, 2021 (6:53 a.m.) 

> A LOT of the thematic development (especially of the main Eternals theme),
> action music, and some very charming fantasy stuff is just not on the
> album, which favors the slow, dramatic, and brooding parts of the score.
> There's even one use of the main theme that was really funny and that I
> won't spoil. Out of all the Marvel scores that get absurdly-long digital
> soundtrack records, why didn't this get one? And even with a 2½-hour
> runtime, how did Djawadi and co. land on THIS 65 minutes of music to
> include on the album? The non-chronological presentation also robs the
> soundtrack of any sort of narrative flow, which makes for a dull listening
> experience.

> This is why whenever you guys complain about albums being too long I roll
> my eyes, cuz I remember when it was all too common for scores to have
> short soundtracks or go by unreleased. Y'all sound spoiled when you want
> soundtracks to be shorter, when what you really should be asking for is
> that scores nowadays be BETTER.

I immediately noticed that the album was not chronological when watching the film. Such a shame. But the music itself is quite wonderful, in my humble opinion... whether on album or in the film. It would be nice to have a few of those cool moments though. Still, what we got was plenty great!


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Craig Richard Lysy
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jjstarA113

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jjstarA113
Re: Eternals score is MUCH better in the film   Tuesday, November 9, 2021 (7:31 a.m.) 
• Now Playing: Lady and the Tramp  

I believe at 65 minutes some really great additional music could have been added. As for those of you voicing chronology issues. I understand, as a reviewer it is indeed irritating, however, every single composer I have talked to on this matter (well over a dozen) state that in constructing their albums their primary motivation is listening experience - they do not give a damn about film chronology.

When all is said and done, the artist's views govern, and I am fine with it. As a fan, I am thankful that I got an album. smile

All the best



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jjstarA113
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Re: Eternals score is MUCH better in the film [EDITED]   Tuesday, November 9, 2021 (1:57 p.m.) 
• Now Playing: Harry Gregson-Williams - Sinbad: Legend of the Seven Seas  

> I believe at 65 minutes some really great additional music could have been
> added. As for those of you voicing chronology issues. I understand, as a
> reviewer it is indeed irritating, however, every single composer I have
> talked to on this matter (well over a dozen) state that in constructing
> their albums their primary motivation is listening experience - they do
> not give a damn about film chronology.

> When all is said and done, the artist's views govern, and I am fine with
> it. As a fan, I am thankful that I got an album. smile

> All the best

Okay, as much as I bitch and whine about film order, I do think there are excellent examples of non-chronological album presentations being better than chronological. For example, a while back I tried listening to the Maleficent soundtrack in film order (haven't seen the film, but someone made a list), and I realized the musical narrative was actually much better paced on the album program, with quieter, conversational sequences being properly broken up with action/horror cues, and (in my opinion) no resulting wonkiness with how the themes develop over the course of the CD. Meanwhile, the film order playlist has the quiet music for longer stretches, and so by comparison it's more of a drag.

However, with stuff like Eternals, Brian Tyler soundtracks, etc., it just seems like there's this irrational fear from composers/producers that the full CD won't hold the listener's attention if presented chronologically, so certain 'standout' tracks are pushed earlier in the program. Of course, like I said, there are cases where this was the right call to make, like Maleficent. But oftentimes this will do the opposite of holding my attention: when you go against that narrative flow and push all the 'good stuff' earlier, the album feels less like a satisfyingly-paced cinematic journey and more like a meandering slog. I thought The Boss Baby soundtrack from 2017 was kinda weak sauce until earlier this year when I figured out the film order. In particular, 'Francis Francis' (the villain's reveal and backstory scene) being the midpoint and 'You Want to Hug Me, Don't You?' being part of the emotional 1-2-3-punch ending along with 'Love' and 'Go Get Yourself a Horse' REALLY saves the whole listening experience.

I actually don't know how the current Eternals album fares when fully rearranged in film order, but I know for sure that moving 'Across the Oceans of Time' near the end where it belongs would alone make for a slightly-better album. Like what you said, whatever Djawadi says goes, but I think if Eternals were to get an expanded soundtrack, it would behoove him to have the score be presented chronologically.


(Message edited on Tuesday, November 9, 2021, at 2:01 p.m.)


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