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Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022

Steven P.
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madtrombone
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Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Monday, June 27, 2022 (2:39 p.m.) 
• Now Playing: Lightyear - Giacchino  

With most people here finding the score for the Obi-Wan Kenobi series being a massive disappointment, possibly the biggest since The Matrix Rejected, it has me wondering about some of the other anticipated scores for the remainder of the year. For me, there are a few scores for the second half of the year I'm eager to hear based on my love for the previous score(s) in the series:

The Rings of Power (Middle Earth prequel series)
Willow (Disney+ sequel series)
Avatar: The Way of Water
Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

My questions for the community:

1. Which one of these do you think has the biggest chance of being a major disappointment?

2. Which one would hurt the most if it ends up being disappointing?



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madtrombone
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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Monday, June 27, 2022 (3:35 p.m.) 

> The Rings of Power (Middle Earth prequel series)
This depends entirely on if Howard Shore returns. If he does, we'll be fine (probably better than fine). If he doesn't, we pray to God whoever they get knows what they're doing and makes PLENTY of use out of the old themes.
> Willow (Disney+ sequel series)
This is James Newton Howard we're talking about, so while the music will probably be good, I'm worried about him not incorporating enough of the Horner, like he basically ignored the Williams stuff in Fantastic Beasts.
> Avatar: The Way of Water
Franglen has more than proved his worth already, so I have little doubt in this one.
> Black Panther: Wakanda Forever
Don't actively relisten to this one a lot, but I assume Goransson will be fine the second time around.


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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Monday, June 27, 2022 (3:46 p.m.) 

> This depends entirely on if Howard Shore returns. If he does, we'll be
> fine (probably better than fine). If he doesn't, we pray to God whoever
> they get knows what they're doing and makes PLENTY of use out of the old
> themes.

Hopefully WB doesn't forbid the use of the old themes


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Bernhard H. Heidkamp
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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Tuesday, June 28, 2022 (6:55 a.m.) 

> This is James Newton Howard we're talking about, so while the music will
> probably be good, I'm worried about him not incorporating enough of the
> Horner, like he basically ignored the Williams stuff in Fantastic Beasts.

you mean like every HP composer ever, including Williams himself?

Seriously, I think that one is a bit unfair. Like I joked, HP's thematic integrity died with AZKABAN and from all the Wizarding scores, FANTASTIC BEASTS is the most justified of not referencing anything. We get Hedwig's Theme for the WB logo and whenever Hogwarts appears, what else would we have needed?



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Riley KZ
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Steven P.
Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Monday, June 27, 2022 (4:13 p.m.) 

> With most people here finding the score for the Obi-Wan Kenobi series
> being a massive disappointment, possibly the biggest since The Matrix
> Rejected, it has me wondering about some of the other anticipated scores
> for the remainder of the year. For me, there are a few scores for the
> second half of the year I'm eager to hear based on my love for the
> previous score(s) in the series:

> The Rings of Power (Middle Earth prequel series)
> Willow (Disney+ sequel series)
> Avatar: The Way of Water
> Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

Basically I think this means - the biggest and most anticipated movies/shows are always the most likely to disappoint us with the music haha.

> My questions for the community:

> 1. Which one of these do you think has the biggest chance of being a major
> disappointment?

Rings of Power. Hell, it’s almost an impossible hill to climb. If Shore returns, expectations will be sky high which usually leads to lots of shrugs. If he doesn’t, many people will be primed to hate it just cause (which many said was the case with Matrix Resurrections, which I don’t agree with, or Zimmer’s Man of Steel, which I do agree with).

> 2. Which one would hurt the most if it ends up being disappointing?

Avatar. Don’t think it will be Franglen’s fault, either — he could give us a perfect sequel score, and part of me will still be sad it didn’t come from Horner himself.


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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022 [EDITED]   Monday, June 27, 2022 (4:19 p.m.) 

Honestly, I feel like we have to temper expectations for most of these.

> The Rings of Power (Middle Earth prequel series)

I don't remember if Howard Shore's involvement was confirmed or if it was all a rumor, but if it's the latter, ooof... As long as the new person mimics the orchestration / style of the original, I'm ok with coming up with new themes.

> Willow (Disney+ sequel series)

I love JNH, but some of his main themes nowadays are... anonymous, to say the least. I just hope that his new material is memorable, because, let's face it, there's a big chance Horner's themes will be chucked out the window. The decision doesn't always lie with the composer, sometimes the director / producers want to steer towards a new direction.

> Avatar: The Way of Water

As someone that was underwhelmed by 'The Magnificent Seven,' I'd be pleasantly surprised if the sequel scores reach the heights of the original.

> Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

I love the first score, so I'm optimistic. If anything, I'm expecting a beefier sequel score (just like with Creed II).

> My questions for the community:

> 1. Which one of these do you think has the biggest chance of being a major
> disappointment?

Honestly, 'Rings of Power.'

> 2. Which one would hurt the most if it ends up being disappointing?

Avatar, for me.


(Message edited on Monday, June 27, 2022, at 4:21 p.m.)


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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Monday, June 27, 2022 (4:33 p.m.) 

> The Rings of Power (Middle Earth prequel series)
> Willow (Disney+ sequel series)
> Avatar: The Way of Water
> Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

> My questions for the community:

> 1. Which one of these do you think has the biggest chance of being a major
> disappointment?

> 2. Which one would hurt the most if it ends up being disappointing?

I think Rings and Willow are in good hands, so I have very low expectations that they will end up a complete mess. Don't really have much expectations for Black PAnter 2 or Avatar 2, so I'd only be mildly annoyed if they did not live up to their respective predecessors.

As for which one would sting the most if it turned out to be bad.... umm, Rings, maybe? I'd be very annoyed if they turned it into a droning RCP affair though again I highly doubt they will.


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AhN
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Edmund Meinerts
Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Monday, June 27, 2022 (5:11 p.m.) 

> With most people here finding the score for the Obi-Wan Kenobi series
> being a massive disappointment, possibly the biggest since The Matrix
> Rejected, it has me wondering about some of the other anticipated scores
> for the remainder of the year. For me, there are a few scores for the
> second half of the year I'm eager to hear based on my love for the
> previous score(s) in the series:

> The Rings of Power (Middle Earth prequel series)
> Willow (Disney+ sequel series)
> Avatar: The Way of Water
> Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

> My questions for the community:

> 1. Which one of these do you think has the biggest chance of being a major
> disappointment?

> 2. Which one would hurt the most if it ends up being disappointing?

Well, by virtue of it not having a composer yet, Rings of Power seems the obvious answer to 1 for me. Willow is a JNH fantasy score so half the board is going to whine about it anyway wink Supposing all of these turn out to be solid but not spectacular scores (let's say 3-4 star consensus), I guess the one I'd feel most let down by would be Black Panther.


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Edmund Meinerts
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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Tuesday, June 28, 2022 (12:36 a.m.) 

> Well, by virtue of it not having a composer yet, Rings of Power seems the
> obvious answer to 1 for me.

The longer it goes on without an announced composer, the more worried I get. The last thing we need is a "Theme by Howard Shore, score by Natalie Holt, Howard Shore's theme adapted by Conrad Pope" type situation.


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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Tuesday, June 28, 2022 (12:24 p.m.) 

> The longer it goes on without an announced composer, the more worried I
> get. The last thing we need is a 'Theme by Howard Shore, score by Natalie
> Holt, Howard Shore's theme adapted by Conrad Pope' type situation.

The horror, the horror!


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Orange Thrush
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Stuart Ackerman
Can't get laid?   Monday, June 27, 2022 (5:17 p.m.) 

Dwelling on life's disappointments makes me think you're not getting the sexual servicing you desire. I take it your scrotum finally recovered from the wrath of Katie Lee Pitchford?


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Re: Can't get laid?   Monday, June 27, 2022 (6:42 p.m.) 

> Dwelling on life's disappointments makes me think you're not getting the
> sexual servicing you desire. I take it your scrotum finally recovered from
> the wrath of Katie Lee Pitchford?

Steven P. was the Florida guy whose ball sack was destroyed by Katie Pitchford?! Congratulations, Steven! She was a hot nymph!


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Mr. Big
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AhN
Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Monday, June 27, 2022 (6:51 p.m.) 

> With most people here finding the score for the Obi-Wan Kenobi series
> being a massive disappointment, possibly the biggest since The Matrix
> Rejected, it has me wondering about some of the other anticipated scores
> for the remainder of the year. For me, there are a few scores for the
> second half of the year I'm eager to hear based on my love for the
> previous score(s) in the series:

> The Rings of Power (Middle Earth prequel series)
> Willow (Disney+ sequel series)
> Avatar: The Way of Water
> Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

> My questions for the community:

> 1. Which one of these do you think has the biggest chance of being a major
> disappointment?

> 2. Which one would hurt the most if it ends up being disappointing?

Fabelmans doesn't become a top ten John Williams score



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AhN
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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Monday, June 27, 2022 (7:59 p.m.) 

> Fabelmans doesn't become a top ten John Williams score

That's a lot to put on one score.


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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Monday, June 27, 2022 (8:01 p.m.) 

> That's a lot to put on one score.

I feel like it's possible for me as consider stuff like Stepmom and The Post to be top 10 or near top 10 scores


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AhN
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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Monday, June 27, 2022 (8:17 p.m.) 

> I feel like it's possible for me as consider stuff like Stepmom and The
> Post to be top 10 or near top 10 scores

That's fine, and I'm not doubting it could be a 5* score. I'm just saying when someone has that extensive a body of work and are widely considered one of the 3 greatest composers in the history of the medium, saying their next score has to be one of their 10 best or else it's a letdown is just setting yourself up for disappointment.


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Mr. Big
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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Monday, June 27, 2022 (8:47 p.m.) 

> That's fine, and I'm not doubting it could be a 5* score. I'm just saying
> when someone has that extensive a body of work and are widely considered
> one of the 3 greatest composers in the history of the medium, saying their
> next score has to be one of their 10 best or else it's a letdown is just
> setting yourself up for disappointment.

If it has an emotional major key piano theme it will be a top 5 for me


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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Tuesday, June 28, 2022 (6:50 a.m.) 

> I feel like it's possible for me as consider stuff like Stepmom and The
> Post to be top 10 or near top 10 scores

I dig my underrated Williams scores too (Born on the Fourth, JFK, Amistad, and Presumed Innocent are possibly top 10-ers) but….The Post? Really? Don’t think I’ve heard anyone express any kind of passion over that one.

You’ve now convinced me to go giver another listen. Maybe I missed something.


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Mr. Big
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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Tuesday, June 28, 2022 (7:40 a.m.) 

> I dig my underrated Williams scores too (Born on the Fourth, JFK, Amistad,
> and Presumed Innocent are possibly top 10-ers) but….The Post? Really?
> Don’t think I’ve heard anyone express any kind of passion over that one.

> You’ve now convinced me to go giver another listen. Maybe I missed
> something.

There's a lot of boring stuff in The Post but it makes great seasonal listening during during late December/early January.

The Presses Roll is my favorite Williams cue that year (JW's take on the "modern arpeggio-driven music" is surprisingly interesting and energetic).

There's also the simple, moving theme in Mother and Daughter and the fantastic final cue/end credits suite.

It also acted as a sort of rebound score after the initial disappointment of TLJ (which was largely made up of pre-existing music)


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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Tuesday, June 28, 2022 (4:19 a.m.) 

> 2. Which one would hurt the most if it ends up being disappointing?

Silvestri's Pinocchio. I so want that to be awesome.



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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Tuesday, June 28, 2022 (5:43 a.m.) 

> 1. Which one of these do you think has the biggest chance of being a major
> disappointment?

The Rings of Power. The fact that no composer has been announced is setting off major alarm bells, not just because it's late, but because the series has a massive musical legacy not just among us film score fans but pop culture in general. If they had a great story about the scoring process they could use to hype the series (whether it was Shore returning, Shore writing new themes, or even just a composer like McCreary talking about how to continue Shore's legacy), you can bet they'd be making a lot of noise about it. That they aren't indicates it's very possible that they 1) might not have a composer yet, 2) might not have the question of adapting existing themes or expanding on Shore's sound figured out yet, and 3) will be scrambling to make those decisions last-minute, meaning even if they make a 'good' choice, it will be harder to execute well.

> 2. Which one would hurt the most if it ends up being disappointing?

From your list, Willow is low stakes for me, as someone who's not enthralled with the original, and based on Franglen's recent scores and past Avatar-related music I feel Avatar 2 is bound to be at least very good. Black Panther's the one that seems most at risk of the studio messing with a good thing, and there's so much more opportunity for Goransson to explore the genre fusion from the first film, so that gets my vote.

Among other films, Klein's Medieval is the one I've built up in my mind to the point of no return. A new score from the composer who wrote my #1 scores each of the last two years, a pupil of Gregson-Williams and Silvestri, for a medieval epic a la Kingdom of Heaven? I couldn't bring my hype down even if I wanted to.



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Bernhard H. Heidkamp
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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Tuesday, June 28, 2022 (7:09 a.m.) 

> With most people here finding the score for the Obi-Wan Kenobi series
> being a massive disappointment, possibly the biggest since The Matrix
> Rejected, it has me wondering about some of the other anticipated scores
> for the remainder of the year. For me, there are a few scores for the
> second half of the year I'm eager to hear based on my love for the
> previous score(s) in the series:

> The Rings of Power (Middle Earth prequel series)

I am lowering my expectations so much. Considering that we still don't know whether the show intends to be connected to the movies or not, I don't know if I really WANT Shore to begin with. Obviously amazon doesn't have the rights for anything WB and New Line did, so we will already have differences, but they still could do their best to connect it without risking legal issues. If they do this, I'd want Shore and his themes.

But I do not believe that they will even be allowed to use his themes then, if they can's visually pull from Jackson.

So, the wet dream of actual Shore prequel scores set aside, all I want is an engaging fantasy score that doesn't feel like someone just used a Two Steps From Hell album as a temp track, so we end up with a bunch of RC-trailer music stuff. We have 6 Howard Shore middle earth scores, now show me what other composers would do in there.

> Willow (Disney+ sequel series)

That's my biggest one. Obviously I'm a JNH fanboy and him doing a fantasy series for such an old-fashioned setting feels like a dream come true, even it weren't tied to a film I already love.

I love the WILLOW themes more than I love the full scores (which I still love) so I want JNH renditions of them. But I'll be honest...if this becomes a DARK CRYSTAL situation where Pemberton only used like 2 token references and then did his own thing, but that own thing was THAT amazing, I am sure I will love a great JNH score without Horner stuff in there as well.

So that is my actual concern. Please be a great JNH fantasy score. An old fashioned 2000s one. As much as I like his HUNTSMAN scores, those feel a bit too modern for what I want. I want more MALEFICENT than HUNTSMAN but even if it's just a more fleshed-out HUNTSMAN I will probably like it.

Just don't be anonymous. I still have to return to JUNGLE CRUISE because that first listen let me kinda cold. So please don't be that.

> Avatar: The Way of Water

I'm not overly attached to the themes, so that is not an issue for me (still would love the continuity)

What I loved about the first AVATAR scores was how colorful it was. Was it kind of a best-of Horner scores? Yeah sure, but a good one at that. I loved the musical world it created and getting lost in it. And now we will be going under water, a setting that will ALWAYS win me over?

Yeah, so give me a colorful underwater sci-fi adventure score. Though et's be honest, if you just put an ungodly amount of glassy percussive stuff in there ("Swimming" from WATERWORLD, "The Hidden World" from HTTYD3 and the stuff from ATLANTIS and ABZŰ for example) and I will love it anyway

> Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

I don't have many stakes in that one. Liked how respectful Görransson seemed to tacke the musical culture (at least to my uninformed western ears) so just continue that. Don't just put some drumming in there you found in your "generic world music (bleugh) library" to make it seem "african" (yikes) and we're set

> My questions for the community:

> 1. Which one of these do you think has the biggest chance of being a major
> disappointment?

LOTR. The ice is so fucking thin

> 2. Which one would hurt the most if it ends up being disappointing?

WILLOW


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madtrombone
Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022 [EDITED TWICE]   Tuesday, June 28, 2022 (8:46 p.m.) 

With Henry Jackman absolutely crushing it in the medium of animation - especially his last two animation scores for Ralph Breaks the Internet (his career best*) and Ron's Gone Wrong - I wish dearly for him to return for Puss in Boots: The Last Wish this Christmas. But I highly doubt it since the original film's director Chris Miller, whom Jackman has collaborated with multiple times, isn't returning for the sequel.

The dude directing this time is Joel Crawford, who's last film was The Croods: A New Age. Mark Mothersbaugh scored that one, so it's possible he'll be scoring the Puss in Boots sequel; unfortunately, I was very unimpressed by his Croods sequel score, especially after Alan Silvestri's above-average score for the original. Honestly, I haven't been all that impressed by Mothersbaugh outside of Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs and The LEGO Movie 1, so I guess only Phil Lord & Chris Miller (the OTHER Chris Miller! tongue) can get excellent music out of him? I may have to revisit Thor: Ragnarok and the Hotel Transylvania scores (and check out Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart as well), but the workmanlike cartoon music that I associate with him just doesn't excite me all that much. Regardless if he gets the gig or not, I do hope that Mothersbaugh is feeling better now after his near-death experience with COVID in 2020.

I also suspect Germaine Franco possibly getting the gig considering her rising fame, her expertise in Latin music, and that she was featured as a 'musician' on the first Puss movie. She would be a cool choice as well, but I'd love for Jackman to further develop the themes he established in the 2011 original. The evolution of his music in Ralph 2 compared to Ralph 1 was absolutely stunning. So yeah, I guess I'm not too sure how excited I should be for this score with no composer announced. &#129335;&#127998;&#8205;&#9794;&#65039;

(*Okay I haven't actually heard enough stuff from Jackman to make that call, but what do YOU think is his best score so far?)


(Message edited on Tuesday, June 28, 2022, at 8:48 p.m. and Tuesday, June 28, 2022, at 8:50 p.m.)


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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Tuesday, June 28, 2022 (8:52 p.m.) 

> 🤷🏾‍♂️

That was meant to be a shrug emoji. clown


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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Wednesday, June 29, 2022 (12:37 a.m.) 

> I also suspect Germaine Franco possibly getting the gig considering her
> rising fame, her expertise in Latin music,

Not to be pedantic (though actually yeah, to be a bit pedantic), but Puss in Boots isn't influenced by Latino music in any way whatsoever. Puss in Boots has always been portrayed (and scored) as an overtly Spanish character.

I say it because I know that people draw the Latino connection, Mexican specifically, because of Horner's Zorro scores, but those scores don't have anything Mexican in them either. All the cultural influences in them are Spanish (which is somehow the worst possible way to score a Mexican character, but that's a different conversation).


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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Wednesday, June 29, 2022 (7:42 a.m.) 

> Not to be pedantic (though actually yeah, to be a bit pedantic), but Puss
> in Boots isn't influenced by Latino music in any way whatsoever. Puss in
> Boots has always been portrayed (and scored) as an overtly Spanish
> character.

> I say it because I know that people draw the Latino connection, Mexican
> specifically, because of Horner's Zorro scores, but those scores don't
> have anything Mexican in them either. All the cultural influences in them
> are Spanish (which is somehow the worst possible way to score a Mexican
> character, but that's a different conversation).

Yes, thanks for the clarification! I’m admittedly rather confused on this subject, so I tried to do a little snooping on the influences and the terminology I should use before posting. The character of Puss in the Shrek universe was of course based on Zorro, a Mexican character who was twice played by Spanish actor Banderas, a problematic decision to say the least (even though I do love that first Zorro movie). I also learned that the world of the Puss in Boots spin-off film, according to executive producer Guillermo del Toro, was an amalgam of Mexico and Spain.

Finally, I found a Wiki page for “Latin music”, a vague, catch-all genre for music originating from Spain, Latin America, Portugal, and the US. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_music). So I figured that was the correct word for the vaguely-defined world of Puss in Boots, as well as the musical domain in which Chicana composer Germaine Franco would likely be called for, as she’s worked on a number of Latin America-based films spanning from Mexico to throughout South America (and is famously adept at getting the specificities of these cultures right depending on the project). However, I understand how the term “Latin music” just flattens all these various, distinct cultures - some of which oceans apart - into one big slurry of stereotypes, and I’m far too uneducated in these cultures to properly parse all of it. sickening


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AhN
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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Wednesday, June 29, 2022 (1:53 p.m.) 

Funny how one added "o" can completely change the meaning. Language is weird and fascinating.


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jjstarA113
Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Wednesday, June 29, 2022 (1:39 p.m.) 

So, incidentally, it was just announced today that Heitor Pereira is scoring the Puss in Boots sequel.

http://filmmusicreporter.com/2022/06/29/heitor-pereira-scoring-dreamworks-animations-puss-in-boots-the-last-wish/

I thought Jackman's score for the first was great (not my favorite of his, but up there for sure), so I'm a little disappointed he isn't back, but Pereira's animation work is always solid, so I'm not unhappy.


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Steven P.
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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Wednesday, June 29, 2022 (3:15 p.m.) 
• Now Playing: Ghost and the Darkness - Goldsmith  

> So, incidentally, it was just announced today that Heitor Pereira is
> scoring the Puss in Boots sequel.

>
> http://filmmusicreporter.com/2022/06/29/heitor-pereira-scoring-dreamworks-animations-puss-in-boots-the-last-wish/

> I thought Jackman's score for the first was great (not my favorite of his,
> but up there for sure), so I'm a little disappointed he isn't back, but
> Pereira's animation work is always solid, so I'm not unhappy.

I've actually never bothered to listen to a Pereira score outside of a film. From what I could gather from the few films I've seen that he's scored, his animation music falls into the common hyper-active/zany style of animation scores with just a few moments of quieter, softer cues. Any in particular I should check out


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JLFM
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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Wednesday, June 29, 2022 (4:21 p.m.) 
• Now Playing: The Remains of the Day (Richard Robbins)  

> I've actually never bothered to listen to a Pereira score outside of a
> film. From what I could gather from the few films I've seen that he's
> scored, his animation music falls into the common hyper-active/zany style
> of animation scores with just a few moments of quieter, softer cues. Any
> in particular I should check out

I'm probably not the person to ask, because I've only heard a handful of them outside of film. Of those, Minions is my favorite, but there are a couple highlights from his first Despicable Me score that I return to more frequently (although I actually don't think that one was ever officially released!).


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jjstarA113
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Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Wednesday, June 29, 2022 (7:27 p.m.) 

> So, incidentally, it was just announced today that Heitor Pereira is
> scoring the Puss in Boots sequel.

>
> http://filmmusicreporter.com/2022/06/29/heitor-pereira-scoring-dreamworks-animations-puss-in-boots-the-last-wish/

> I thought Jackman's score for the first was great (not my favorite of his,
> but up there for sure), so I'm a little disappointed he isn't back, but
> Pereira's animation work is always solid, so I'm not unhappy.

Ah, well that's a bummer, but I'm interested in what Pereira has to offer. I'm now hoping that Jackman ends up on Disney's Strange World, since Don Hall (Pooh 2011, Big Hero 6) is directing that one.


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madtrombone
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jjstarA113
Re: Potential score disappointments for the rest of 2022   Thursday, June 30, 2022 (10:47 a.m.) 

> revisit Thor: Ragnarok and the Hotel Transylvania scores

There's three tracks in the third Hotel Transylvania movie that kick serious butt, and they make for a stellar suite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-xbFhPFqZA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oll7sv80JlA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2DVcL8z8Dg


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