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  ScoreBoard Forum

  Aviator and four other scores disqualified.  
 
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Otis Bryant
(128.172.221.214)


  Responses to this Message:
Carlton
Southall
C. Hook
thw
Peter
Jockolantern
FREAK
Chus (from Spain)
Timothy
Zephros
  Aviator and four other scores disqualified.   Thursday, January 20, 2005 (9:53 a.m.) 

This was from variety.com, which I obtained from the forum at Oscarwatch:

Inside Moves: Acad shoots down 'Aviator' music

Acadamy muffles tuners hopefuls

By JON BURLINGAME

Howard Shore's music for "The Aviator," which has already won Golden Globe and Broadcast Film Critics Assn. awards and has been shortlisted in the BAFTA race, will be missing from Tuesday's Academy Award nominations.
Shore's score is one of several that have been disqualified by the Academy's music branch executive committee under Oscar rules, which are more restrictive than those of the other organizations.

Also failing to make the Oscar cut are Craig Armstrong's score for "Ray," Harry Gregson-Williams' music for "Shrek 2," James Newton Howard's score for "Collateral" and director Clint Eastwood's music for his "Million Dollar Baby." None was among the 81 films on a reminder list sent to the approximately 240 branch members for voting.

Nomination ballots are due back by Saturday.

Academy officials wouldn't comment on the record, but committee sources confirmed "Aviator's" score ran afoul of music rule B.5.(d): "scores diluted by the use of tracked or pre-existing music."

Shore's half-hour of original score constitutes between one-third and one-fourth of the film's total music, which includes classical selections and many period songs chosen by director Martin Scorsese, similar to the musical collage he fashioned for "Gangs of New York."

Reached after his Golden Globe win, Shore said he respects the committee and accepts its decision. Shore's "Aviator" music also won Chicago and Seattle critics prizes.

"Ray" was eliminated based on music rule B.5.(e): "scores diminished in impact by the predominant use of songs." "Shrek 2" reportedly was dropped because much of the material was based on the first "Shrek" score. "Collateral" was another case of the director using a variety of music and not primarily the work of a single composer.

Eastwood's "Million Dollar Baby" score failed to qualify because the paperwork was submitted too late for committee consideration.

One music branch committee member said the group screened the films in question with cue sheets (detailed breakdowns of the music) in hand and debated each decision to ensure strict adherence to the rulebook.

Over the years, the rules have been tweaked to ensure that only original scores -- by Academy definition, "a substantial body of music in the form of dramatic underscoring written specifically for the film" and not a group of songs or a compilation of music from various sources -- can be nominated.

I'm not sure if this news was posted anywhere else since I didn't see it, but here it is for the record.

At least, at this point, the Oscar is going to either Giacchino or Kaczmarek.

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Carlton
(netcache-3004.bay.webtv.net)

  In Response to:
Otis Bryant

  Responses to this Message:
Southall
  What the ...Million Dollar Baby has been Ousted *NM*   Thursday, January 20, 2005 (11:47 a.m.) 

I'm shocked and elated

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Southall
(webcacheh09b.cache.pol.co.uk)

  In Response to:
Carlton

  Responses to this Message:
Peter
  Re: What the ...Million Dollar Baby has been Ousted   Saturday, January 22, 2005 (4:40 p.m.) 

In all seriousness, I thought Million Dollar Baby was one of the most beautiful scores of the year. People have a go about it because it's not composed by a "proper" film composer, but it's good music, perfect for the movie, and a credit to the multi-talented Eastwood. It is the only one of the scores named as being ineligible for nomination that actually deserves it.


Movie Wave
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Peter
(82-38-248-26.cable.ubr01.shef.blueyonder.co.uk)

  In Response to:
Southall

  Responses to this Message:
Southall
  Re: Million Dollar Baby   Sunday, January 23, 2005 (12:51 p.m.) 

> In all seriousness, I thought Million Dollar Baby was one of the most
> beautiful scores of the year. People have a go about it because it's not
> composed by a "proper" film composer, but it's good music,
> perfect for the movie, and a credit to the multi-talented Eastwood. It is
> the only one of the scores named as being ineligible for nomination that
> actually deserves it.

Having just seen the film - I agree with you. I wouldn't go as far and say the score would actually deserve an Oscar, but the music was beautiful, effective yet respectfully understated. The film as a whole is quite amazing. A harrowing story, which takes a dramatic turn I wasn't expecting (because, due to my initial lack of interest for this film, I never read anything about it). Eastwood, Freeman and Swank deliver top notch performances. In fact, all the characters are stand out, in their own comedic or dramatic ways.

pt.



Movie Music UK
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Southall
(webcacheh11a.cache.pol.co.uk)

  In Response to:
Peter
  Re: Million Dollar Baby   Sunday, January 23, 2005 (1:16 p.m.) 

> Having just seen the film - I agree with you. I wouldn't go as far and say
> the score would actually deserve an Oscar, but the music was beautiful,
> effective yet respectfully understated. The film as a whole is quite
> amazing. A harrowing story, which takes a dramatic turn I wasn't expecting
> (because, due to my initial lack of interest for this film, I never read
> anything about it). Eastwood, Freeman and Swank deliver top notch
> performances. In fact, all the characters are stand out, in their own
> comedic or dramatic ways.

I agree with all that. I thought the film was amazing and would be neither surprised nor disappointed if it won Best Picture.


Movie Wave
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Southall
(webcacheh13a.cache.pol.co.uk)

  In Response to:
Otis Bryant

  Responses to this Message:
Pawe³ Stroinski
Jonathan Broxton
  Re: Aviator and four other scores disqualified.   Thursday, January 20, 2005 (12:47 p.m.) 

> At least, at this point, the Oscar is going to either Giacchino or
> Kaczmarek.

Giacchino!? Do you seriously think that!?

I would not have a clue who it may be going to but of the 240 eligible scores I would imagine The Incredibles is somewhere near number 240 in terms of likelihood of winning.


Movie Wave
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Pawe³ Stroinski
(dkv169.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)

  In Response to:
Southall
  Re: Aviator and four other scores disqualified.   Thursday, January 20, 2005 (12:53 p.m.) 

> Giacchino!? Do you seriously think that!?

> I would not have a clue who it may be going to but of the 240 eligible
> scores I would imagine The Incredibles is somewhere near number 240 in
> terms of likelihood of winning.

Who then? Zimmer?? I love Spanglish, but Finding Neverland must win . Maybe Kent. Who can be nominated?


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Jonathan Broxton
(82-38-248-26.cable.ubr01.shef.blueyonder.co.uk)

  In Response to:
Southall

  Responses to this Message:
Mike the Rookie
Christian Kühn
Southall
docile
  Re: Aviator and four other scores disqualified.   Thursday, January 20, 2005 (2:02 p.m.) 

> Giacchino!? Do you seriously think that!?

> I would not have a clue who it may be going to but of the 240 eligible
> scores I would imagine The Incredibles is somewhere near number 240 in
> terms of likelihood of winning.

Really? I disagree. The Incredibles won the LA Critics Award, and several others, so I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibil;ity that he will pick up a nomination. With Shore and Eastwood out, I think the likely nominees will be:

Giacchino, The Incredibles
Kaczmarek, Finding Neverland
Kent, Sideways
Williams, The Terminal
Zimmer, Spanglish

although looking at the potential Best Picture nominees (which always give an indication of what might pick up a score nod), a surprise nomination might go to Jon Brion for Eternal Sunshine or Carter Burwell for Kinsey. And then there's the "little foreign film" phenomenon - Badalamenti for Very Long Engagement, Umebayashi for House of Flying Daggers, Coulais for The Chorus, Amenabar for The Sea Inside... who knows??


Movie Music UK
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Mike the Rookie
(ip68-109-5-85.hr.hr.cox.net)

  In Response to:
Jonathan Broxton

  Responses to this Message:
Jonathan Broxton
  Re: Aviator and four other scores disqualified.   Thursday, January 20, 2005 (2:32 p.m.) 

Just wanted to let you know your link at the bottom doesn't work. I think you used the .com extension instead of .us



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Jonathan Broxton
(82-38-248-26.cable.ubr01.shef.blueyonder.co.uk)

  In Response to:
Mike the Rookie
  Re: Aviator and four other scores disqualified.   Thursday, January 20, 2005 (2:36 p.m.) 

> Just wanted to let you know your link at the bottom doesn't work. I think
> you used the .com extension instead of .us

Oops!! Thanks


Movie Music UK
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Christian Kühn
(188.vauban.fr.studentenwohnheim-bw.de)

  In Response to:
Jonathan Broxton
  Re: Aviator and four other scores disqualified.   Thursday, January 20, 2005 (2:37 p.m.) 

> A surprise nomination might go to Jon Brion for Eternal Sunshine or Carter
> Burwell for Kinsey.

Not in a million years. *

> And then there's the "little foreign film" phenomenon - Badalamenti for Very > Long Engagement, Umebayashi for House of Flying Daggers, Coulais for The
> Chorus, Amenabar for The Sea Inside... who knows??

I think/hope we're past that "Oh, it's from a foreign movie, so it's music must be nice. I'll give it my vote!" period. Although Badalamenti would be deserved. Coulais' score is ineligible, as it has been judged as an "Original Song Score".

Although I trust neither my nose nor my guts this year, my guesses look like this:

-Finding Neverland
-The Incredibles
-Lemony Snicket's...
-Sideways
-The Terminal

* I'll eat my shoes if it happens, though...

cK

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Southall
(webcacheh04a.cache.pol.co.uk)

  In Response to:
Jonathan Broxton
  Re: Aviator and four other scores disqualified.   Thursday, January 20, 2005 (4:30 p.m.) 

> Really? I disagree. The Incredibles won the LA Critics Award, and several
> others, so I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibil;ity that he
> will pick up a nomination. With Shore and Eastwood out, I think the likely
> nominees will be:

> Giacchino, The Incredibles
Kaczmarek, Finding Neverland
Kent,
> Sideways
Williams, The Terminal
Zimmer, Spanglish

I guess that could well be the case (after all, several previous Pixar scores have been nominated). I'm still not convinced about The Incredibles though - it's such an obvious pastiche (a good one, of course) and that sort of score doesn't tend to get nominated.

I have to say that in all my years as a film music fan I've never before had a problem in coming up with five scores I thought were good enough for nomination, or restricting my thoughts on what might be nominated to just five scores. I'm not entirely convinced Sideways or Spanglish will be nominated, nor The Incredibles. The only problem is that I can't think of anything else that might be. Lemony Snicket? The Aviator and Million Dollar Baby would have been certainties if they hadn't been disqualified.




Movie Wave
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docile
(cache05.iad.untd.com)

  In Response to:
Jonathan Broxton

  Responses to this Message:
Kevin L.
  House of Flying Daggers....   Thursday, January 20, 2005 (7:16 p.m.) 

> Really? I disagree. The Incredibles won the LA Critics Award, and several
> Badalamenti for Very Long Engagement, Umebayashi for House of Flying
> Daggers, Coulais for The Chorus, Amenabar for The Sea Inside... who
> knows??

How is House of Flying Daggers? Is it any good (the music that is)?

THE END

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Kevin L.
(cpe00045a827047-cm013289902563.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)

  In Response to:
docile
  Re: House of Flying Daggers....   Thursday, January 20, 2005 (9:08 p.m.) 

> How is House of Flying Daggers? Is it any good (the music that is)?

> THE END

One of the themes in HOFD begins in the exact same way as Nino Rota's "The Godfather", and that distracted me to no end. Not a bad score otherwise.

Kevin


My music
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C. Hook
(200.122.157.28)

  In Response to:
Otis Bryant
  It's a pity about Ray.   Thursday, January 20, 2005 (1:58 p.m.) 

> At least, at this point, the Oscar is going to either Giacchino or
> Kaczmarek.

Am I the only one who is excited for this? Giacchino all the way! Hell yeah!

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thw
(fermat.physics.utoronto.ca)

  In Response to:
Otis Bryant
  Does this mean John William's Terminal is in? *NM*   Thursday, January 20, 2005 (3:50 p.m.) 



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Peter
(82-38-248-26.cable.ubr01.shef.blueyonder.co.uk)

  In Response to:
Otis Bryant

  Responses to this Message:
Christian Kühn
  Re: Good!! Five more chances for Polar Express! *NM*   Thursday, January 20, 2005 (4:16 p.m.) 




Movie Music UK
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Christian Kühn
(188.vauban.fr.studentenwohnheim-bw.de)

  In Response to:
Peter

  Responses to this Message:
Peter
Timothy
  Re: Good!! Five more chances for Polar Express!   Thursday, January 20, 2005 (9:53 p.m.) 

I still have my doubts, seeing as the movie wasn't the blockbuster everybody expected/wanted it to be. Also, there might be another issue with too much songs (though I haven't heard anything in that direction).

In favor of it -apart from being simply great music-, it's still fresh in people's memory, and it's one of the few categories where a nomination is possible.

In other words: GO ALAN!

cK

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Peter
(82-38-248-26.cable.ubr01.shef.blueyonder.co.uk)

  In Response to:
Christian Kühn
  Re: Good!! Five more chances for Polar Express!   Friday, January 21, 2005 (1:50 a.m.) 

Between you and me: I know the Academy will be too stoopid to nominate the Polar Express (it'll get a song nomination though).

I don't think the "too many song, not enough score" issue applies to Polar Express, as there IS about 50 minutes of score in the film AND it is very prominent (moren prominent than the songs in fact) AND the songs were written by Alan as well. They guy did EVERYTHING on this movie (escept act, directed, visual effects, etc.... )

But... one can hope. Because, sometimes hope is all we got. GO ALAN!

pete.

> I still have my doubts, seeing as the movie wasn't the blockbuster
> everybody expected/wanted it to be. Also, there might be another
> issue with too much songs (though I haven't heard anything in that
> direction).

> In favor of it -apart from being simply great music-, it's still fresh in
> people's memory, and it's one of the few categories where a nomination is
> possible.

> In other words: GO ALAN!

> cK



Movie Music UK
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Timothy
(bigbird-l1.webworksgy.com)

  In Response to:
Christian Kühn
  Re: Good!! Five more chances for Polar Express!   Friday, January 21, 2005 (3:09 p.m.) 

> I still have my doubts, seeing as the movie wasn't the blockbuster
> everybody expected/wanted it to be.

Actually, if you check the final Box-Office numbers, P.E. did pretty well.

TTFN Tim.


A Very Long Engagement - A Review
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Jockolantern
(65.121.103.83)

  In Response to:
Otis Bryant
  All right. Finding Neverland is that much closer to winning. *NM*   Thursday, January 20, 2005 (7:31 p.m.) 



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FREAK
(catv-506346c6.catv.broadband.hu)

  In Response to:
Otis Bryant

  Responses to this Message:
Peter
Olivier
Bernardo
  Am I the only one who is hoping for The Village?   Friday, January 21, 2005 (2:09 a.m.) 

Quite a minimalistic and beautiful score from James Newton-Howard. It not only fits perfectly with the movie but tells the story musically.
Since John Williams never wins but in the other hand has more than 45 nominations (I adore the guy he is a geniousrolemodeltoughmasterbastard ) this time they should give the nomination (as an honorable mention) to Newton-Howard. I have my fingers crossed for him (it's quite uncomfortable whily typing ....)

PS.: Alejandro Amenábar won !!! Yehaaa

Cheers

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Peter
(82-38-248-26.cable.ubr01.shef.blueyonder.co.uk)

  In Response to:
FREAK
  Re: Am I the only one who is hoping for The Village?   Friday, January 21, 2005 (2:41 a.m.) 

I agree with you. It's very unlikely he will be nominated, but JNH's The Village was an excellent score.

My personal nominees are:

The Polar Express (winner) (Silvestri)
Sky Captain (Shearmur)
The Village (JNH)
The Incredibles (Giacchino)
Birth (Desplat)

pt.


Movie Music UK
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Olivier
(ast-lambert-151-1-7-54.w82-120.abo.wanadoo.fr)

  In Response to:
FREAK
  Re: Oen more vote for The Village *NM*   Friday, January 21, 2005 (2:43 a.m.) 




Of Mice and Ducks
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Bernardo
(ce01pc01.netcabo.net)

  In Response to:
FREAK
  another vote for The Village!! *NM*   Friday, January 21, 2005 (1:38 p.m.) 



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Chus (from Spain)
(27.red-82-158-53.user.auna.net)

  In Response to:
Otis Bryant

  Responses to this Message:
Christian Kühn
C. Hook
  ...And what about Cold Mountain??   Friday, January 21, 2005 (10:46 a.m.) 

The score of "Cold Mountain" was nominated last year with less than 20 minutes of original music by Gabriel Yared!! How many time have these rules?? How is it possible??

If John Williams gets one nomination more, he will reach Alfred Newman (43 nominations against 42 of Johnny). But JW doesn´t need any gift. He can get a nomination by his own... I think "Prisoner of Azkaban" is a wonderful score.

My nominations (without stranger rules):

- Alexander
- The Aviator
- Sky Captain
- The Incredibles
- The prisoner of Azkaban


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Christian Kühn
(188.vauban.fr.studentenwohnheim-bw.de)

  In Response to:
Chus (from Spain)

  Responses to this Message:
Chus (from Spain)
  Re: ...And what about Cold Mountain??   Friday, January 21, 2005 (12:13 p.m.) 

> The score of "Cold Mountain" was nominated last year with less
> than 20 minutes of original music by Gabriel Yared!! How many time have
> these rules?? How is it possible??

There were only 20 on the OST. The total amount of Yared score in the film was somewhere between 40 and 45 minutes.

> If John Williams gets one nomination more, he will reach Alfred Newman (43
> nominations against 42 of Johnny). But JW doesn´t need any gift. He can
> get a nomination by his own... I think "Prisoner of Azkaban" is
> a wonderful score.

"Get a nomination by his own..." What do you mean by that? That a lot of his nomintions were "gifts"?

> My nominations (without stranger rules):

> - Alexander
- The Aviator
- Sky Captain
- The Incredibles
>
- The prisoner of Azkaban

More or less agreeable.

cK

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Chus (from Spain)
(27.red-82-158-53.user.auna.net)

  In Response to:
Christian Kühn

  Responses to this Message:
Christian Kühn
  About "gifts"   Saturday, January 22, 2005 (7:13 a.m.) 

I don´t know if I wrote the post correctly. I´m Spanish, and my English must be very bad
First of all, I think John Williams is by far the greatest film music composer of all time. He has demonstrated along many years that he´s simply the best, and if I have the film music as hobby is thanks to him. I didn´t want to criticize JW.
I wanted to say that I think John Williams is very appreciated in the Academy (at least with the nominations), and I feel that if they have any doubt, they´ll choose the Maestro. But it´s not a gift. It´s the consequence of his long and triumphant career.
This year John Williams has wrote two very enjoyable scores (despite "The terminal" has more probabilities, I prefer "The prisoner of Azkaban"), but he has the handicap of their early presentation. Now, the Academy has banned the last scores presented, so I believe that the probabilities of a new nomination to JW have been strongly increased.

Some examples of "gift" nominations:
- Sabrina
- Nixon
- The empire of the Sun

Some examples of Williams´ scores "forgotten" by the Academy:
- Jurassic Park
- Hook
- The phantom menace

I think that, in the end, 42 nominations to JW is correct. However, Williams should have 10 awards instead 5.

Chus

P.D.: I didn´t know the Yared´s score for "Could Mountain" was longer than the OST. Thank you for the commentary.

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Christian Kühn
(188.vauban.fr.studentenwohnheim-bw.de)

  In Response to:
Chus (from Spain)
  Re: About "gifts"   Sunday, January 23, 2005 (2:47 a.m.) 

> I don´t know if I wrote the post correctly. I´m Spanish, and my English must > be very bad

Not at all, not at all, and you know better about grammar and punctuation than some native English-speakers around here!

> First of all, I think John Williams is by far the greatest film music
> composer of all time. He has demonstrated along many years that he´s simply > the best, and if I have the film music as hobby is thanks to him. I didn´t
> want to criticize JW. I wanted to say that I think John Williams is very
> appreciated in the Academy (at least with the nominations), and I feel that > if they have any doubt, they´ll choose the Maestro.

I think there's some truth in this, yes.

> But it´s not a gift. It´s the consequence of his long and triumphant career. > This year John Williams has wrote two very enjoyable scores (despite "The
> Terminal" has more probabilities, I prefer "The Prisoner of Azkaban"), but
> he has the handicap of their early presentation. Now, the Academy has banned > the last scores presented, so I believe that the probabilities of a new
> nomination to JW have been strongly increased.

He would have been nominated in any case.

> Some examples of "gift" nominations: - Sabrina - Nixon - The Empire of the
> Sun

Empire of the Sun was richly deserved, my favorite Williams score of the 80s.

> Some examples of Williams´ scores "forgotten" by the Academy:
> - Jurassic Park - Hook - The Phantom Menace

Quite true.

> I think that, in the end, 42 nominations to JW is correct. However,
> Williams should have 10 awards instead 5.

That is also true. In my lists Williams would have won seven times: Star Wars, Superman, The Empire Strikes Back, Raiders of the Lost Ark, E.T., Empire of the Sun, Schindler's List. Maybe a song here and there, too.

Adios,

cK

> P.D.: I didn´t know the Yared´s score for "Could Mountain" was
> longer than the OST. Thank you for the commentary.


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C. Hook
(200.122.157.28)

  In Response to:
Chus (from Spain)

  Responses to this Message:
Chus (from Spain)
  Re: ...And what about Cold Mountain??   Friday, January 21, 2005 (1:23 p.m.) 

> The score of "Cold Mountain" was nominated last year with less
> than 20 minutes of original music by Gabriel Yared!! How many time have
> these rules?? How is it possible??

As Kuhni pointed out, there's more music in the film. The score wasn't inundated with period music (you can figure out why ) so Yared's score dominated.

> If John Williams gets one nomination more, he will reach Alfred Newman (43
> nominations against 42 of Johnny). But JW doesn´t need any gift. He can
> get a nomination by his own... I think "Prisoner of Azkaban" is
> a wonderful score.

Most people here are saying he will get nominated for The Terminal, which is a rather silly nomination. In the "obligatory Williams nomination" category, I nominate Prisoner of Azkaban. It is fresh and a reminder that Williams can pull these any time he wants. The composers in charge of the voting should realize this.

Anyhow, it could very well surprise us that the maestro probably won't get a single nod.

> My nominations (without stranger rules):

> - Alexander

You will die a horrible death, Oliver Stone!

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Chus (from Spain)
(27.red-82-158-53.user.auna.net)

  In Response to:
C. Hook
  Re: ...And what about Cold Mountain??   Saturday, January 22, 2005 (7:57 a.m.) 

So that was the difference... the period music!! I didn´t know it, thank you for your commentary

It´s sad but truth. "The terminal" is a very good score to a comedy, but isn´t one of the great scores that we usually hear from JW. "The prisoner of Azkaban" is thematically rich and symphonically strong. But the Academy usually rejects the following scores of the sagas (except "The lord of the rings"). I think that is a crime that John Williams has only one award for Star Wars.

I´m Spanish, my English must be seriously improved, so I don´t know what you mean saying "You will die a horrible death, Oliver Stone!" when I nominate "Alexander". I believe that you didn´t like very much the movie, and I´m agree. But remember, I´m judging the score, not the movie. So I´m nominating Vangelis, not Oliver Stone...
I´m sad when I see the Academy forgetting a good score only because it´s in a bad movie, or simply in a movie that doesn´t fight for the Academy Awards. "Hook", "The time machine", "Legends of the fall", "Edward Scissorhands", "Crimson tide"... all of them are great scores that were ignored by the Academy only to be in bad movies (the first three) or movies not orientated to the Awards (the last two). I like to judge only the music

Chus

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Timothy
(bigbird-l1.webworksgy.com)

  In Response to:
Otis Bryant
  Re: Is this for real?*NM*   Friday, January 21, 2005 (3:05 p.m.) 




A Very Long Engagement - A Review
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Zephros
(dialup-209.135.221.203.acc02-neer-bal.comindico.com.au)

  In Response to:
Otis Bryant
  My Oscar List   Saturday, January 22, 2005 (12:06 a.m.) 

HARRY POTTER AND THE PRISONER OF AZKABAN - John Williams
THE TERMINAL - John Williams
THE VILLAGE - James Newton Howard
THE INCREDIBLES - Michael Giacchino
LEMONY SNICKET'S A SERIES OF UNFORTUNATE EVENTS - Thomas Newman

The winner will be Prisoner fo Azkaban.

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