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  ScoreBoard Forum

  Superman Returns (a.k.a., Ottman Arrives)  
 
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Cap Stewart
(adsl-6-47-51.tys.bellsouth.net)


  Responses to this Message:
Smalltown_Poets
Brendan Anderson
  Superman Returns (a.k.a., Ottman Arrives)   Thursday, July 6, 2006 (11:30 a.m.) 

I didn’t get to see the movie until last night. Even though it lasted two-and-a-half hours, it felt like a mere 90 minutes. I enjoyed almost everything about the film—except for the unexplained motivations and inexplicable occurrences that detracted from the intended thrills of the third act.

For me, the greatest thrills were provided by Ottman’s masterful integration of new and used material. The music is absolutely astounding! I’m especially fond of the additional themes Ottman composed for Superman and Luther. Definitely my choice for the highlight score of the year thus far. The music hasn’t left my head since I left the theater. I just finished my first listen to the CD and am still in awe.

Here’s to John Ottman, who did what was close to impossible.

NP: Superman Returns

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Smalltown_Poets
(aca5b5e0.ipt.aol.com)

  In Response to:
Cap Stewart

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Yavar Moradi
Cap Stewart
  Ottman Arrives? What took him so long?   Thursday, July 6, 2006 (4:21 p.m.) 

Oh, yeah: this time, Williams was driving.

I find it interesting how some composers take so long to "arrive" after having years of high-profile projects. I mean, Cliff Eidelman's the same age as John Ottman and he came right out of the gate metaphorical guns blazing.

And now he gets to score one minor film a year for a couple of directors who still remember he exists. Sigh...

-Poets



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Yavar Moradi
(adsl-69-231-42-213.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)

  In Response to:
Smalltown_Poets

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Smalltown_Poets
  Actually I think it could have been done better in many spots.   Thursday, July 6, 2006 (5:18 p.m.) 

The fellow did all right, though.

Yavar

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Smalltown_Poets
(ac87b1bc.ipt.aol.com)

  In Response to:
Yavar Moradi

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Yavar Moradi
  Actually I totally agree   Thursday, July 6, 2006 (8:34 p.m.) 

> The fellow did all right, though.

I was just making the point that this is the best received "Ottman" score in years... but I think most would agree the parts that were the most effective were Williams quotes. I wonder if Singer had pulled a "Batman Begins" and started from scratch (including music) if anyone would even be really discussing the Superman score right now. Who knows, there's no way to know, but considering Ottman's last "huge new franchise" score, it's not as if anyone is ever going to be clamoring for a complete Fantastic Four release. Or clamoring about anything about that film, anyway.

Can you imagine Fantastic Four by Don Davis? Shirley Walker? John Scott? Joel McNeely (if he got some of that Shadows of the Empire inspiration)? Our man Cliff? Wow.

-Poets


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Yavar Moradi
(adsl-69-231-42-213.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)

  In Response to:
Smalltown_Poets

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Smalltown_Poets
  Actually the new material doesn't bug me so much, but how he uses William's...   Thursday, July 6, 2006 (9:28 p.m.) 

Sometimes in the score the way he uses Williams' music is really...lame.

I actually thought Ottman's new themes were fine (though obviously not as good as Williams').

Yavar


The first in a long line of awesome shows Fox cancelled early!
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Smalltown_Poets
(ac87b1bc.ipt.aol.com)

  In Response to:
Yavar Moradi

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Admiral Hull
  Re: Actually... actually? Actually!   Thursday, July 6, 2006 (9:58 p.m.) 

> Sometimes in the score the way he uses Williams' music is really...lame.

I don't know... I just couldn't help smiling when I heard it on theater speakers.

> I actually thought Ottman's new themes were fine (though obviously not as
> good as Williams').

Obviously. I mean, it's as impressed as I've been with original Ottman music in a film. But that's really not saying that much. The only reason I'd consider getting it is for the original Williams material. But as I don't have a release of the original Williams score, I think I should look for that instead, anyway.

I'm not aiming to keep doing overly negative posts tonight... but no one's replied to my John Powell Phoenix theme love-fest post. Oh, well.

I actually went and saw X-Men Last Stand again tonight (this was the last day it's showing here) just to hear the score in film again in the theater.

-Poets


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Admiral Hull
(dialup-4.255.226.201.Dial1.Atlanta1.Level3.net)

  In Response to:
Smalltown_Poets
  I agree.   Saturday, July 8, 2006 (10:25 a.m.) 

> I just couldn't help smiling when I heard it on theater
> speakers.

Righto!!! They could have edited it a little better in some places, though.

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Cap Stewart
(adsl-6-47-51.tys.bellsouth.net)

  In Response to:
Smalltown_Poets

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Admiral Hull
  He didn't use Mapquest   Friday, July 7, 2006 (9:03 a.m.) 

The one problem I have with the score is that John Williams is not officially credited on the movie posters or CD packaging.

Cap

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Admiral Hull
(dialup-4.255.226.201.Dial1.Atlanta1.Level3.net)

  In Response to:
Cap Stewart
  Re: He didn't use Mapquest   Saturday, July 8, 2006 (10:19 a.m.) 

He is credited in the opening credits (maybe the end credits, too; I didn't look) for writing the original Superman theme; they probably could have given him more credit than that, but some credit is better than none.

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Brendan Anderson
(adsl-69-234-26-168.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)

  In Response to:
Cap Stewart

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Cap Stewart
John Jurries
  I completely and utterly....   Friday, July 7, 2006 (12:10 p.m.) 

Disagree. I enjoyed seeing the film, yes, but it had more holes and problems than you could shake a stick at.

> I enjoyed almost
> everything about the film—except for the unexplained motivations and
> inexplicable occurrences that detracted from the intended thrills of the
> third act.

*some spoilers ahead*

It had problems before the third act. The characters of Lex Luthor and Clark Kent were virtually shafted from having any meaningful screen time or development. Luthor's plot to create this magical land of crystals managed to make preparations for keeping Superman away, yes, but what about the rest of the world and its arsenal? I'm betting a big ol' A-bomb would tear a nice hole through whatever crystal world Lex had for himself. And another thing - why does Lex Luthor only listen to the most mundane of classical music? If he's supposed to be a criminal mastermind, couldn't he find something a little more interesting than the Four Seasons?

Almost every scene in the movie had some kind of problem or oversight or continuity problem or ridiculous aspect.

Why would Luthor fly his helicopter onto his new crystal continent, but not have enough fuel to get anywhere after leaving? And for that matter, how did he get to some tropical desert island when he was just a little bit ago off the coast of the north-eastern seaboard?

Why are they treating Superman with a ventilator bag when it's obvious from his travels through water and space he doesn't breathe oxygen?

Why wouldn't Superman suspect Luthor to have kryptonite when there is a scene earlier in the movie when Clark Kent hears about the meteorite exhibit theft? For that matter, why doesn't Superman realize the crystal continent is made of Kryptonite as soon as he gets there?

How come after pushing the kryptonite continent into space Superman falls back to earth? He's obviously escaped the gravitational pull of the earth if the continent can just float away, yet he then falls to earth?

The list can go on...it was a good attempt at a fun Superman movie, but issues abound.

> For me, the greatest thrills were provided by Ottman’s masterful
> integration of new and used material. The music is absolutely astounding!

The Williams material is astounding...the Ottman material has none of the same structure, phrasing or development and it ends up sounding like two separate and mis-matched scores competing with one another throughout the film. Not only that, but many of the quotes of Williams material is altered to be harmonicly watered down. This score doesn't do it for me.

-Brendan


BrendanAnderson.com - super-stooge extrodinare
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Cap Stewart
(adsl-6-47-51.tys.bellsouth.net)

  In Response to:
Brendan Anderson

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Admiral Hull
  ...and totally and finally...   Friday, July 7, 2006 (1:46 p.m.) 

[MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD]

> And another thing - why does Lex Luthor only listen to the most mundane of
> classical music? If he's supposed to be a criminal mastermind, couldn't he
> find something a little more interesting than the Four Seasons?

Hmm, I liked it—well, all of the classical music used in the film…well, ALL the music used in the film.

> Why are they treating Superman with a ventilator bag when it's obvious
> from his travels through water and space he doesn't breathe oxygen?

> Why wouldn't Superman suspect Luthor to have kryptonite when there is a
> scene earlier in the movie when Clark Kent hears about the meteorite
> exhibit theft? For that matter, why doesn't Superman realize the crystal
> continent is made of Kryptonite as soon as he gets there?

Yes, that particularly bothered me.

> How come after pushing the kryptonite continent into space Superman falls
> back to earth? He's obviously escaped the gravitational pull of the earth
> if the continent can just float away, yet he then falls to earth?

Yes, that particularly bothered me as well.

Besides, why was it so life-and-death important to get rid of Luther’s new island? And what was it about taking it up into space that killed Superman in the first place?

> The Williams material is astounding...the Ottman material has none of the
> same structure, phrasing or development and it ends up sounding like two
> separate and mis-matched scores competing with one another throughout the
> film. Not only that, but many of the quotes of Williams material is
> altered to be harmonicly watered down. This score doesn't do it for me.

Well, I’m sorry…for you.

Cap

Did you happen to catch “The Office” on NBC last night? I didn’t get to watch all of it, but there were at least three shows back to back!

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Admiral Hull
(dialup-4.255.226.201.Dial1.Atlanta1.Level3.net)

  In Response to:
Cap Stewart
  Re: ...and totally and finally...   Saturday, July 8, 2006 (10:16 a.m.) 

> Besides, why was it so life-and-death important to get rid of Luther’s new
> island? And what was it about taking it up into space that killed Superman
> in the first place?

Well, if Superman waited too long to move the island, chances are it would become too big for even his incredible strength. As for almost getting killed, Superman very cleverly went down through the planet's core, bellow where the crystals themselves actually started, so the layer of ordinary Earth rock could act as a barrier between him and the Kryptonite in the island; however, the chuncks of regular rock soon fell away, exposing the man of steel to the Kryptonite. Thus, by the time Superman got into space to shove the island away, the exposure to the Kryptonite he had received while lifting the thing through the atmosphere had drained him of all his energy and almost killed him.

Done and doone.

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John Jurries
(c-71-205-139-134.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)

  In Response to:
Brendan Anderson
  Re: I completely and utterly....   Friday, July 7, 2006 (7:51 p.m.) 

I agree with Brendan...I just saw the movie tonight (Pirates was sold out), and the plot holes took too much from the enjoyment for me. My biggest question? (Spoilers ahead) Since Superman draws his power from the sun, why, when he lay dying in the hospital, did they have the blinds closed? Were they trying to kill him? Why not ship him to a greenhouse somewhere?

And why was Lois Lane's hair fine after she got the crap kicked out of her on the plane crash? She didn't even have a scratch on her!

And why didn't she pass on from lack of oxygen when Superman flies her around the city? And why was her hair messed up then?

And why didn’t Superman care about the blackout? Or the theft? Or anything?

And what good does building new land to take over the world do when it’s all rock? Is food no longer important?

Also, anyone and everyone responsible for Jimmy Olsen must die. Most. Annoying. Character. Ever.

Bah. To many plot holes. Very disappointing.

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