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  Re: Laying the Zimmer-basher smackdown just like old times?  
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• Posted by Nate U
• Date: Sunday, July 23, 2006, at 11:04 a.m.
• IP Address:
• In Response to: Re: Laying the Zimmer-basher smackdown just like old times? (Josh)

Josh! Good to see I can still bring you out of the woodwork

> I really hope you're not comparing Zimmer and his power anthems with a
> film scoring artist like Hermann, much less Stavinsky, whose works will
> still be performed and marvelled at when an algorithm has been invented to
> construct Zimmer-esque action scores automatically.

and Really what I'm trying to say is that Zimmer is *not* comparable in a direct sense to Herrmann or Stravinsky, but they *are* examples of controversial composers in their own time, but have gone on to become held in high regard. (actually, I don't know if Herrmann was especially controversial in his own time, but he was quite different from most other film composers from what I know)


> Anyway, you touch on the problem - neither of the Pirates scores (okay, I
> haven't actually heard the second one, but I doubt it's very different by
> any indication...) amounts to much in the way of an original concept.
> Stock progressions and themes along with the standard (and increasingly
> dated-sounding) electronics do not make for particularly interesting
> music.

Creative use of electronics will never sound "dated." The first pirates of the Caribbean score I don't particularly like that I don't really want to defend it, however portions of the new score I think are much better, because Zimmer has written a lot more of it. Also see in my previous message where I say: "But when he can't create his own concept his music can suffer. The concept for the Pirates of Caribbean score is a big-loud-over the top Zimmer action extravaganza. Bruckheimer says so. Well, doesn't put Hans in the greatest position to be at his most creative, eh?"

> But to take the "controversial -> real substance" argument at
> face value, we'd then conclude that John Cage's music (well, pieces) has
> substance, would we not? Substance in this case would seem to imply a sort
> of artistry or unique expression. At this point, the standard Zimmer score
> has little of either. When it comes to considering the substance of
> creative works, do you think people will still be listening to Zimmer
> action scores in 25 years? Fifty years? Of course, the same could be asked
> of *any* film music, but where the music of Williams and, yes, even
> Horner, has long since entered the public consciousness (and the concert
> hall, at least for pops concerts), I see Zimmer's more standard fare as
> merely ephemeral.

Well, no one can know for sure for another 25 or 50 years. Also Zimmer's music simply doesn't work in the concert hall played by a conventional orchestra, because Zimmer rarely writes for a conventional orchestra. (Unlike composers like Williams or Horner) When it comes to entering public consciousness, I'll admit no one beats Williams, but Zimmer has had just as much impact with the general public as Horner has IMHO, (People bought the Titanic soundtrack mostly for the song, and a lot of people have bought the gladiator soundtrack) and Zimmer has had more impact I think on the state of film music.


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