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  Re: Laying the Zimmer-basher smackdown just like old times?  
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• Posted by Nate U
• Date: Monday, July 24, 2006, at 1:06 p.m.
• IP Address:
• In Response to: Re: Laying the Zimmer-basher smackdown just like old times? (Pawel Stroinski)

> Taking into account that much of recent fans of the genre were brought
> into it by Zimmer he is not booed so much, no. And even among some
> traditionalists he may be taken as a guilty pleasure.

True. Zimmer I think gets lot of booing AND cheering...definitely more cheering from the more casual film music fans.

> I believe the problem lies somewhere else. And it's a problem both of
> Zimmer's growth as a composer and the fact of who is brought in. The
> problem is Jerry Bruckheimer.

He sure doesn't help push Zimmer's creativity!

> From the very firing of Silvestri we knew that Jerry Bruckheimer will
> never allow a traditional genre score from any composer. That's what
> Silvestri wanted to do and he got sacked. Given some preferences of the
> producer (Dan Goldwasser said once he is a woodwind hater, how can you
> bring in a swashbuckler WITHOUT wind section, huh?), Zimmer sticks to his
> comfort not to lose his job, not to mention he wasn't a fan of the genre
> ("I never cared for Korngold"). So it's not about his comfort
> zone, since getting a Bruckheimer job already sets the sound of the score.

Right, serve the Boss. Thats why I said the major problem with the Pirates' scores isn't Zimmer himself, but the fact Bruckheimer already has a concept for the music he wants Zimmer to use...and Zimmer uses it. (wether he should or not is another question) Bruckheimer is a business man, not an artist. I think everyone can agree on that.

> Crimson Tide may have brought many fans into the genre (not as much as The
> Rock maybe though) and it may have been a revolution in film music (though
> again the definite MV score is The Rock and setting comparisons to it,
> when it comes to the Pirates scores is not so wrong as it may sound at the
> first time. What else? The Thin Red Line?), but it brought a problem.
> Bruckheimer's preferences make a submarine thriller, a King Arthur epic
> and a pirate swashbuckler sound the same. This may make an assignment like
> that a thankless job. And I believe actually King Arthur is one of weakest
> Zimmer action scores, not the best as Kuhni says. To the best I, for a
> change, take the second PotC score.

Pirates has some kickin' action tunes, but too much cut-and-paste in the film. The action ideas in "Jack Sparrow" and "The Kraken" are good rollicking fun, but they are just cut-and-pasted for the actual music in the film. ("Wheel of Fortune") King Arthur doesn't have as much of that....its simplistic perhaps, moreso than Pirates, but it cooks right along in an epic, giant, choir, battle-of-the-gods sort of way

> Bruckheimer's preferences largely set the sound of Zimmer in the action
> genre. When he tried to do a more classical action score with Peacemaker
> (with Prokofiev influences, not to mention first Holst references), he was
> liked I think only by his fans, even I think it's a Zimmer failure due to
> his orchestration problems. He stopped in between a more classical action
> score and his traditional MV sound and eventually these MV cues sounded
> the best, the rest of the score being a convoluted mix between classical
> references, MV sound, rejected Crimson Tide underscore and a beautiful
> dramatic ethnic theme which still belongs to his highlights.

Personally I think The Peacemaker is a ing awesome Zimmer action score, he combined his unqiue style and 'tude he had developed over the past decade, but than pushed it further and matured with some chromatic and orchestration sophistication. He hasn't matched it since...intentionally, I believe.

> Peacemaker he vanished from the action genre for a longer time with
> writing few minutes into Chill Factor before leaving it to Powell, Badelt
> and, as far as I remember, Rona. In 1998 we had Prince of Egypt (an epic
> score) and The Thin Red Line. In 2000 came a director that has strange
> gusto when it comes to film scores Ridley Scott. Too, you don't write a
> swashbuckler for John Woo. Pearl Harbor was another Bruckheimer, Black
> Hawk Down is an experiment (and both Ridley Scott and Bruckheimer), Tears
> of the Sun had not much action music and seemed an orchestral and more
> traditional version of BHD. THe Last Samurai dropped wind section for
> color reason (he wanted the score to lack color, to represent Japanese
> culture). See the picture?

I'll agree with all of that. Zimmer felt he exausted the whole "car chase" thing and explored other avenues. Recently he's been more apt to dip his toes into the action genre, but never if you notice has there been a strait-out action film.

> There weren't many action scores for Zimmer to develop. He did it with
> Pearl Harbor slightly, which presented a new action music style, much more
> dramatic and not-so-rock influenced.

Zimmer's action music evolution I think can best be represented by the "Cameron Border Post" cue from Tears of the Sun...still pulsating and pounding, but as you say much more dramatic. If you notice, the whole cue with only the orchestra parts is a string elegy. The "action" is supplied only by everything.


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