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Ramblings on sound design rumblings: All Quiet, Annihilation, and Arrival

Ramblings on sound design rumblings: All Quiet, Annihilation, and Arrival
AhN
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Friday, February 3, 2023 (11:53 a.m.) 

Finally got around to All Quiet on the Western Front today. I generally like Bertelmann's music, though he can be hit or miss. I think he was my composer of the year in 2020? Basically, I like some of his stuff, but he's not appointment listening for me. So when people basically said his score for All Quiet on the Western Front was crap, and I was super behind on new scores, I figured it was worth skipping. Then it got an Oscar nomination and quickly became the poster child for how putrid and underwhelming and awful this year's nominees were. Forgettability bad I can shrug off, but a score that's described as *checks notes* "repugnant,...disgusting...the worst score which I've covered that was nominated for Best Original Score" and "actively detrimental" and "didn't crack my top 600" is something I have to investigate for myself. Also I gotta write an Oscars piece for FSM lol.

And in the end...eh. It's fine. I don't hate it. In fact, it *almost* works. I can get behind what Bertelmann was going for. It's more on the sound design side, with soft ambient strings and a bit of violin and some militaristic percussion. It's an anachronistic choice for a World War I movie, but it could work. In a lot of ways it feels like Johannsson-lite, with the soft thumping and groaning cellos and light electronics, so I could shrug it off as a less engaging Arrival-type score.

Except... (and if you have heard this score you know exactly what I'm about to mention)

Right off the bat, in the first cue, there's an abrasive, heavy on the distortion 3 note motif. It shows up every so often throughout the rest of the score, and it's just awful. Completely sinks the score. I can almost get, conceptually, why it's there. Something about the terrifying technological innovations that WWI begat, and so this new chemical warfare is a scary, modern thorn that sticks out of the rest of the score and setting. Maybe. But also it doesn't work. At all. (On album at least, I should probably get around to the film since it raked in a ton of nominations.)

In fact, I think this serves as a good case study in developing "otherworldly" textures or motifs for your sound design score. As I said before, this score reminds me a lot of Arrival. Setting aside how this score doesn't do as well in creating a compelling soundscape or landing emotionally, let's look at each score's One Weird Texture. For All Quiet, it's this 3 note motif. For Arrival, it's probably the ship motif that blasts out during the early scenes where they go into the ship. ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHIw-lPxsdQ ) The key difference, for me, is that this and the other "otherworldly" ideas Johannsson uses in his score all feel a part of the same score. Yes, the sound is jarring, but it makes sense both in the world established in the film, and also just the general atmosphere established by the score up to this point. On top of that, Johannsson eases into it by playing it softer a few times in an earlier cue before the big blast comes. With All Quiet, Bertelmann's motif sticks out, even from the modern ambient style of the rest of the score.

"But Vikram," you ask, "couldn't having that One Weird Texture stand out so sharply from the rest of the score enhance the dissonance and really sell the awfulness of the thing the OWT accompanies?"

"Why yes, Audience Plant," I reply, "It could, and for an example of that, let's go to the soap bubble!"

I never actually listened to Annihilation's score outside of context. I just remember hating the noise that came out of the trailer. And then that same, horrible synthy riff showed up at the end of the film too. Most of the score passed me by without any notice in context, I think it was mostly sparse ambience with some acoustic guitar noodling here and there. But then at the end, oh my god. I hated it, it was so painful. And it's perfect. That riff is so godawful and painful and different from the rest of the score that it elevates the climax of the film to fever dream levels, just a horrible waking nightmare, something truly uncanny and skincrawling. (Skip to around 4:45 to get to the riff: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUxFHpDqOH4 )

That's the way to do it if you want your OWT to succeed by contrast. And in Bertelmann's case, the texture of his motif isn't jarring because it's something you've never heard before. We've all heard it before. It sticks out because we recognize it and we recognize it's wrong, not just for the film's setting, but for the score itself. Even on album, where the music can exist as its own thing, where you could potentially block out whatever the film is and vibe to the score as a CD of mood music, it's so clearly the wrong fit with the rest of the score.

So the upshot of All Quiet, to me at least, is that it's a score that could've worked with the approach taken. Some of the pieces are there for a decent ambient score. But there's One Weird Texture that neither fits into the tapestry of the score, nor is outlandish enough to be truly hair-raising. So none of it works, and we're stuck...in No Man's Land.

Rad-swaggity.


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Re: Ramblings on sound design rumblings: All Quiet, Annihilation, and Arrival
Cole McLeod
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Friday, February 3, 2023 (3:03 p.m.) 

> Finally got around to All Quiet on the Western Front today. I generally
> like Bertelmann's music, though he can be hit or miss. I think he was my
> composer of the year in 2020? Basically, I like some of his stuff, but
> he's not appointment listening for me. So when people basically said his
> score for All Quiet on the Western Front was crap, and I was super behind
> on new scores, I figured it was worth skipping. Then it got an Oscar
> nomination and quickly became the poster child for how putrid and
> underwhelming and awful this year's nominees were. Forgettability bad I
> can shrug off, but a score that's described as *checks notes*
> 'repugnant,...disgusting...the worst score which I've covered that was
> nominated for Best Original Score' and 'actively detrimental' and 'didn't
> crack my top 600' is something I have to investigate for myself. Also I
> gotta write an Oscars piece for FSM lol.

That’s one of the reasons I don’t really enjoy “hyperbole” reviews. They can turn people off things completely by painting things in such extremes, even when said thing has merits or is interesting in some way. But more nuanced and positive takes on things aren't as attention-grabbing as “this score was so bad it chopped down the very tree of my joy and salted the earth so that it never more will grow”, so what’re you gonna do?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I listened to the first cue and it was alright. I can see how it sounds a little too anachronistic for some, but I don’t think it’s any more unpleasant than most attempts at an “unsettling noise theme.”


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Re: Ramblings on sound design rumblings: All Quiet, Annihilation, and Arrival
Erik Woods
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Friday, February 3, 2023 (9:01 p.m.) 

> That’s one of the reasons I don’t really enjoy “hyperbole” reviews.

But Jon's review isn't hyperbolic. It's truthful and honest.

-Erik-



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Re: Ramblings on sound design rumblings: All Quiet, Annihilation, and Arrival
AhN
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Friday, February 3, 2023 (10:36 p.m.) 

> That’s one of the reasons I don’t really enjoy “hyperbole” reviews. They
> can turn people off things completely by painting things in such extremes,
> even when said thing has merits or is interesting in some way. But more
> nuanced and positive takes on things aren't as attention-grabbing as “this
> score was so bad it chopped down the very tree of my joy and salted the
> earth so that it never more will grow”, so what’re you gonna do?
> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I think you have my point backwards haha. Robert's initial opinion that I saw was just a "Nope" or a "Pass" or something like that. It wasn't until the all-out fusillade that I was like "It's THIS bad? Okay I've gotta listen." But also, for that matter, I don't think anything Robert said was much of an exaggeration from how he genuinely feels about the score.

> I listened to the first cue and it was alright. I can see how it sounds a
> little too anachronistic for some, but I don’t think it’s any more
> unpleasant than most attempts at an “unsettling noise theme.”

Ultimately, this is as clear cut a 1/5 score that I can think of. I get what it tried to do, and it didn't work at all. I don't hate it, but it failed. Moving on. "Nope" is pretty much the review I'd give it lol.


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Re: Ramblings on sound design rumblings: All Quiet, Annihilation, and Arrival
Soundtracker94
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Friday, February 3, 2023 (3:11 p.m.) 

Here's a review from someone who has seen the (rather good) film:

https://soundtrack-universe.blogspot.com/2022/11/all-quiet-on-western-front-capsule.html

----

But yes, the ultra abrasive sound design method occasionally works as in Annihilation (good flick. Check it out when you can) but even there it kinda fits with the general style of the score... and also fits perfectly with the ending sequence of pure alienness. With Bertelmann's efforts, the War motif (for lack of a better descriptor) is so incredibly jarring to the surrounding soundscape and so cheap in execution that it completely falls apart. Making matters infinitely worse is that actively harms the scenes it appears in within the film to the point of making some very dire and grisly moments near laughable with BWAM BWAM BWAAAM blaring through the sound mix.



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Re: Ramblings on sound design rumblings: All Quiet, Annihilation, and Arrival
AhN
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Saturday, February 4, 2023 (8:59 a.m.) 

> Here's a review from someone who has seen the (rather good) film:

>
> https://soundtrack-universe.blogspot.com/2022/11/all-quiet-on-western-front-capsule.html

> ----

> But yes, the ultra abrasive sound design method occasionally works as in
> Annihilation (good flick. Check it out when you can)

Oh yeah, great film.

> but even there
> it kinda fits with the general style of the score... and also fits
> perfectly with the ending sequence of pure alienness.

> With Bertelmann's
> efforts, the War motif (for lack of a better descriptor) is so incredibly
> jarring to the surrounding soundscape and so cheap in execution that it
> completely falls apart.

...wow way to distill my post down to one sentence. No wonder your reviews are so much shorter wink

> Making matters infinitely worse is that actively
> harms the scenes it appears in within the film to the point of making some
> very dire and grisly moments near laughable with BWAM BWAM BWAAAM blaring
> through the sound mix.

That's kinda what I figured. Also surprised that you ended up calling it only a "near-fatal" flaw and gave it 2/5 given this and your review as a whole.


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Re: Ramblings on sound design rumblings: All Quiet, Annihilation, and Arrival [EDITED]
Soundtracker94
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Saturday, February 4, 2023 (6:15 p.m.) 

> Oh yeah, great film.

Oh yeah, you've seen it before. Obviously forgot that in my original post. tongue

> ...wow way to distill my post down to one sentence. No wonder your reviews
> are so much shorter wink

Heh, conciseness is something I've strived for. wink That said, it's fun to read more verbose writings when they are done well.*

> That's kinda what I figured. Also surprised that you ended up calling it
> only a 'near-fatal' flaw and gave it 2/5 given this and your review as a
> whole.

Yeah, I went back and re-listened to the album tonight and now I'm seriously questioning *why* I gave it 2/5 originally. Need to go in and tweak the review....

*now, whether your's qualifies or not.... wink tongue


(Message edited on Saturday, February 4, 2023, at 6:25 p.m.)


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Re: Ramblings on sound design rumblings: All Quiet, Annihilation, and Arrival
Jonesy
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Friday, February 3, 2023 (6:52 p.m.) 

Fantastic summation, and agreed all the way. Ironically, the thing from Annihilation was one of my favorite bits because *finally* some energy had shown up!


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Re: Ramblings on sound design rumblings: All Quiet, Annihilation, and Arrival
AhN
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Saturday, February 4, 2023 (8:54 a.m.) 

> Fantastic summation, and agreed all the way. Ironically, the thing from
> Annihilation was one of my favorite bits because *finally* some energy had
> shown up!

Yeah, I truly don't remember anything before that scene musically, save for the meteor music at the very beginning.


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Re: Ramblings on sound design rumblings: All Quiet, Annihilation, and Arrival
Riley KZ
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Saturday, February 4, 2023 (7:01 a.m.) 

> Finally got around to All Quiet on the Western Front today. I generally
> like Bertelmann's music, though he can be hit or miss. I think he was my
> composer of the year in 2020? Basically, I like some of his stuff, but
> he's not appointment listening for me. So when people basically said his
> score for All Quiet on the Western Front was crap, and I was super behind
> on new scores, I figured it was worth skipping. Then it got an Oscar
> nomination and quickly became the poster child for how putrid and
> underwhelming and awful this year's nominees were. Forgettability bad I
> can shrug off, but a score that's described as *checks notes*
> 'repugnant,...disgusting...the worst score which I've covered that was
> nominated for Best Original Score' and 'actively detrimental' and 'didn't
> crack my top 600' is something I have to investigate for myself. Also I
> gotta write an Oscars piece for FSM lol.

> And in the end...eh. It's fine. I don't hate it. In fact, it *almost*
> works. I can get behind what Bertelmann was going for. It's more on the
> sound design side, with soft ambient strings and a bit of violin and some
> militaristic percussion. It's an anachronistic choice for a World War I
> movie, but it could work. In a lot of ways it feels like Johannsson-lite,
> with the soft thumping and groaning cellos and light electronics, so I
> could shrug it off as a less engaging Arrival-type score.

> Except... (and if you have heard this score you know exactly what I'm
> about to mention)

> Right off the bat, in the first cue, there's an abrasive, heavy on the
> distortion 3 note motif. It shows up every so often throughout the rest of
> the score, and it's just awful. Completely sinks the score. I can almost
> get, conceptually, why it's there. Something about the terrifying
> technological innovations that WWI begat, and so this new chemical warfare
> is a scary, modern thorn that sticks out of the rest of the score and
> setting. Maybe. But also it doesn't work. At all. (On album at least, I
> should probably get around to the film since it raked in a ton of
> nominations.)

> In fact, I think this serves as a good case study in developing
> 'otherworldly' textures or motifs for your sound design score. As I said
> before, this score reminds me a lot of Arrival. Setting aside how this
> score doesn't do as well in creating a compelling soundscape or landing
> emotionally, let's look at each score's One Weird Texture. For All Quiet,
> it's this 3 note motif. For Arrival, it's probably the ship motif that
> blasts out during the early scenes where they go into the ship. (
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHIw-lPxsdQ ) The key difference, for me,
> is that this and the other 'otherworldly' ideas Johannsson uses in his
> score all feel a part of the same score. Yes, the sound is jarring, but it
> makes sense both in the world established in the film, and also just the
> general atmosphere established by the score up to this point. On top of
> that, Johannsson eases into it by playing it softer a few times in an
> earlier cue before the big blast comes. With All Quiet, Bertelmann's motif
> sticks out, even from the modern ambient style of the rest of the score.

> 'But Vikram,' you ask, 'couldn't having that One Weird Texture stand out
> so sharply from the rest of the score enhance the dissonance and really
> sell the awfulness of the thing the OWT accompanies?'

> 'Why yes, Audience Plant,' I reply, 'It could, and for an example of that,
> let's go to the soap bubble!'

> I never actually listened to Annihilation's score outside of context. I
> just remember hating the noise that came out of the trailer. And then that
> same, horrible synthy riff showed up at the end of the film too. Most of
> the score passed me by without any notice in context, I think it was
> mostly sparse ambience with some acoustic guitar noodling here and there.
> But then at the end, oh my god. I hated it, it was so painful. And it's
> perfect. That riff is so godawful and painful and different from the rest
> of the score that it elevates the climax of the film to fever dream
> levels, just a horrible waking nightmare, something truly uncanny and
> skincrawling. (Skip to around 4:45 to get to the riff:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUxFHpDqOH4 )

> That's the way to do it if you want your OWT to succeed by contrast. And
> in Bertelmann's case, the texture of his motif isn't jarring because it's
> something you've never heard before. We've all heard it before. It sticks
> out because we recognize it and we recognize it's wrong, not just
> for the film's setting, but for the score itself. Even on album, where the
> music can exist as its own thing, where you could potentially block out
> whatever the film is and vibe to the score as a CD of mood music, it's so
> clearly the wrong fit with the rest of the score.

> So the upshot of All Quiet, to me at least, is that it's a score that
> could've worked with the approach taken. Some of the pieces are there for
> a decent ambient score. But there's One Weird Texture that neither fits
> into the tapestry of the score, nor is outlandish enough to be truly
> hair-raising. So none of it works, and we're stuck...in No Man's Land.

> Rad-swaggity.

Interesting stuff bud (though of course you had to end it with a pun :P).

I think it basically boils down to this - we know our film music has to service the film, but we also are all weirdo's who like listening to it out of context. Therefore:

- Music can be sound design-y in nature,
- Music can be unpleasant by design, but
- Music can't be both. If it is, then it's not music, it's just painful crap to our ears.

Cause I think of stuff like Cliff Martinez or scores like (whoops, gonna piss you off just by reminding you about it) Upstream Colour, and they are usually quite sound design-y, ambient, textural, occasionally disonant. But I don't find them unpleasant or difficult to listen to; on the contrary, I find them relaxing as shit for the most part.

And then I think of, say, Chris Young's horror scores. Many of them are extremely unpleasant, but that's literally why they exist. That's their purpose and nature, and because they're intelligently done, they succeed.

But what happens when the two twains twixt? Blegh. You get stuff like All Quiet, which to be honest I remember more as being very boring and tedious than flat-out annoying to listen to. And I'm with ya, Volker can do great work (still once again must express frustration that his wonderful Current War score still only exists outside the film in like, two cues on youtube). So I dunno...I get it, I get the hate, though I also see where people who like it, or at least appreciate it, come from.

Arrival still sucks though :P


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Re: Ramblings on sound design rumblings: All Quiet, Annihilation, and Arrival
AhN
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Saturday, February 4, 2023 (9:10 a.m.) 

> Interesting stuff bud (though of course you had to end it with a pun :P).

You won't believe this, but I didn't come up with it until I was writing that last paragraph haha.

> I think it basically boils down to this - we know our film music has to
> service the film, but we also are all weirdo's who like listening to it
> out of context. Therefore:

> - Music can be sound design-y in nature,

Yes.

> - Music can be unpleasant by design, but

Yes.

> - Music can't be both. If it is, then it's not music, it's just painful
> crap to our ears.

Let him finish!

> Cause I think of stuff like Cliff Martinez or scores like (whoops, gonna
> piss you off just by reminding you about it) Upstream Colour, and they are
> usually quite sound design-y, ambient, textural, occasionally disonant.
> But I don't find them unpleasant or difficult to listen to; on the
> contrary, I find them relaxing as shit for the most part.

Sure...

> And then I think of, say, Chris Young's horror scores. Many of them are
> extremely unpleasant, but that's literally why they exist. That's their
> purpose and nature, and because they're intelligently done, they succeed.

Yes, but would you not consider them sound design? Also, which scores do you have in mind? Because a lot of those horror scores are extremely melodic, and even stuff like Drag Me To Hell is pretty thematic too.

> But what happens when the two twains twixt? Blegh. You get stuff like All
> Quiet, which to be honest I remember more as being very boring and tedious
> than flat-out annoying to listen to. And I'm with ya, Volker can do great
> work (still once again must express frustration that his wonderful Current
> War score still only exists outside the film in like, two cues on
> youtube). So I dunno...I get it, I get the hate, though I also see where
> people who like it, or at least appreciate it, come from.

Sure. I can see how an Oscar voter talked themselves into being impressed with the gamble he took. Just because most of us thought it failed spectacularly doesn't mean it was the case for everyone. I mean, there are probably people out there who like Giacchino's Hope theme from Rogue One!

Well, now that I've seen Steve Jobs, I can do this:

Hey Riley, say it one more time for me.

> Arrival still suc--

Fuck you!



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Re: Ramblings on sound design rumblings: All Quiet, Annihilation, and Arrival
Riley KZ
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Saturday, February 4, 2023 (5:23 p.m.) 

> You won't believe this, but I didn't come up with it until I was writing
> that last paragraph haha.

You’re right, I don’t 😆

> Yes.

> Yes.

> Let him finish!

Title of my sex tape…

> Sure...

> Yes, but would you not consider them sound design? Also, which scores do
> you have in mind? Because a lot of those horror scores are extremely
> melodic, and even stuff like Drag Me To Hell is pretty thematic too.

I was thinking some of his more recent controversial ones like Sinister and Wilson’s Heart and Empty Man (and maybe his latest too by the sounds of it). Stuff where the reviews normally go “we all know he can wow us with orchestral gothic power but intellectually this creepy as fuck noise is just as effective”.

Cause I’m pretty sure I’ve seen Bennett use the term “creepy as fuck noise” in a review…:

> Sure. I can see how an Oscar voter talked themselves into being impressed
> with the gamble he took. Just because most of us thought it failed
> spectacularly doesn't mean it was the case for everyone. I mean, there are
> probably people out there who like Giacchino's Hope theme from Rogue One!

Zing! But yeah like…I mean it’s one of the worst nominations for best score I can remember, but I can see how it happened. Is what it is.

> Well, now that I've seen Steve Jobs, I can do this:

> Hey Riley, say it one more time for me.

> Fuck you!

Hahaha perfect. Hucked a Sorkin at me, can’t complain about that 😝


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