I originally hadn't planned to do this, but I figured what the hell No commentary from me, just a straight list, Top 10 scores of 2008:

1. PONYO, Joe Hisaishi
2. THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON, Alexandre Desplat
3. THE OTHER BOLEYN GIRL, Paul Cantelon
4. STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE, Danny Elfman
5. I WANT TO BE A SHELLFISH, Joe Hisaishi
6. EAGLE EYE, Brian Tyler
7. DEFIANCE, James Newton Howard
8. INDIANA JONES AND TRHE KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL, John Williams
9. TINKER BELL, Joel McNeely
10. THE BOY IN THE STRIPED PYJAMAS, James Horner

Composer of the Year: JOE HISAISHI

Here's my actual awards article from that year: https://moviemusicuk.us/movie-music-uk-awards/movie-music-uk-awards-2008/

Jon

> I originally hadn't planned to do this, but I figured what the hell

Why not? It wouldn't feel right to do this without the long-standing members of the board chiming in!

> No commentary from me, just a straight list, Top 10 scores of 2008:

> 1. PONYO, Joe Hisaishi
> 2. THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON, Alexandre Desplat
> 3. THE OTHER BOLEYN GIRL, Paul Cantelon
> 4. STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE, Danny Elfman
> 5. I WANT TO BE A SHELLFISH, Joe Hisaishi
> 6. EAGLE EYE, Brian Tyler
> 7. DEFIANCE, James Newton Howard
> 8. INDIANA JONES AND TRHE KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL, John Williams
> 9. TINKER BELL, Joel McNeely
> 10. THE BOY IN THE STRIPED PYJAMAS, James Horner

> Composer of the Year: JOE HISAISHI

Got it!

> Here's my actual awards article from that year:
> https://moviemusicuk.us/movie-music-uk-awards/movie-music-uk-awards-2008/

These are such wonderful time capsules. Looking back this time reminded me of how many of the same composers are still working. It feels like 3/4 of the names listed there (for film scores, at least) are currently active and doing great things.

And at the risk of bringing it up so much that it actively turns people off of it: Prince Caspian didn't even make the top 9 of its genre?!

> And at the risk of bringing it up so much that it actively turns people
> off of it: Prince Caspian didn't even make the top 9 of its genre?!

Yeah, I don't know. It just... never occurs to me to think about it or listen to it. That entire series of films just passed me by. I remember enjoying them fine in the moment, same with the scores, but then... they just left my brain entirely.

I just went and re-read my review of Prince Caspian from back in the day (https://moviemusicuk.us/2008/05/16/the-chronicles-of-narnia-prince-caspian-harry-gregson-williams/) and it appears I said some reasonably nice things about it, but I haven't listened to it once in the intervening 17 years, which is probably indicative or something. I should probably add it as the fifth 'honorable mention' in the fantasy category from that year.

> Yeah, I don't know. It just... never occurs to me to think about it or
> listen to it. That entire series of films just passed me by. I remember
> enjoying them fine in the moment, same with the scores, but then... they
> just left my brain entirely.

Funny how different our perspectives can be, and likely a generational thing. Those two scores were such cornerstones of my early film music journey that they are still the first thing that pops into my mind whenever I think of Harry Gregson-Williams and among the first I think of for their respective years despite not necessarily being my top favorites anymore for either the composer or the years.

For that matter the main heroic theme from those is also THE four-chords-of-pop theme against which all other such themes are measured in my brain

(Message edited on Monday, May 12, 2025, at 1:36 p.m.)

> Funny how different our perspectives can be, and likely a generational
> thing. Those two scores were such cornerstones of my early film music
> journey that they are still the first thing that pops into my mind
> whenever I think of Harry Gregson-Williams and among the first I think of
> for their respective years despite not necessarily being my top favorites
> anymore for either the composer or the years.

It's interesting that I feel like your comments on it do tend to be couched in nostalgia and how they played a role in your early listening, while for me I've heard them way more than enough over the years to have lots of different associations (in addition to the nostalgia). Do you think if you took away the nostalgia that your estimation would drop substantially?

(I feel like I need a big old "don't worry about hurting my feelings" disclaimer on my Narnia posts, because really and truly, I respond a lot to comments about them just because I enjoy discussing them, not because I'm annoyed/defensive/whatever else.)

> For that matter the main heroic theme from those is also THE
> four-chords-of-pop theme against which all other such themes are measured
> in my brain

I agree, of course, but in part because it does much more with them than those other themes - in terms of the melody, the chords that follow (those 4 chords are just 25% of it!), and all the ways it gets manipulated throughout both scores. I always found the Deep Blue Sea comparison striking but wondered why no one ever talked about how the melodies are pretty different, and how there's a whole second half to HGW's theme.

> It's interesting that I feel like your comments on it do tend to be
> couched in nostalgia and how they played a role in your early listening,
> while for me I've heard them way more than enough over the years to have
> lots of different associations (in addition to the nostalgia). Do you
> think if you took away the nostalgia that your estimation would drop
> substantially?

Oh, no, certainly not substantially. They're really good scores by any "objective" metric I might apply, and if anything my opinion of the first one has risen a fair bit over time (though I still favor the second, they're much closer to each other than they once were). But whereas eg. LotR and At World's End have never left my top 10 of all time, these have - and I think I always knew they weren't quite of that same caliber, just as I always knew the first Pirates score was a deeply flawed work.

Perhaps I am doing them a disservice by framing them through a nostalgia lens (though it's less nostalgia, I'd say, than acknowledging their formative role in shaping my musical taste). But it seemed right to contrast that with Jon for whom they were just yet more scores out of thousands he has listened to and forgotten over the years.

> I agree, of course, but in part because it does much more with them than
> those other themes - in terms of the melody, the chords that follow (those
> 4 chords are just 25% of it!), and all the ways it gets manipulated
> throughout both scores. I always found the Deep Blue Sea comparison
> striking but wondered why no one ever talked about how the melodies are
> pretty different, and how there's a whole second half to HGW's theme.

Yeah, I think this is a big part of what makes certain four-chords themes work well and others come across as banal - how much are you doing beyond the chords? How is the melody? Where do you take it once the four chords are over? I don't really get why Deep Blue Sea is so often the comparison point, either; Rabin hardly invented the progression.

> Oh, no, certainly not substantially. They're really good scores by any
> 'objective' metric I might apply, and if anything my opinion of the first
> one has risen a fair bit over time (though I still favor the second,
> they're much closer to each other than they once were). But whereas eg.
> LotR and At World's End have never left my top 10 of all
> time, these have - and I think I always knew they weren't quite of that
> same caliber, just as I always knew the first Pirates score was a
> deeply flawed work.

Only since you used "caliber," which feels more about objective analysis rather than subjective feelings, I'm curious what in particular do you think is better about At World's End that's not just a taste/subjective thing? (Have to insert the disclaimer again because this is really and truly a genuine question and not me being feisty haha. And I love At World's End!)

> Yeah, I think this is a big part of what makes certain four-chords themes
> work well and others come across as banal - how much are you doing beyond
> the chords? How is the melody? Where do you take it once the four chords
> are over? I don't really get why Deep Blue Sea is so often the
> comparison point, either; Rabin hardly invented the progression.

I don't know why that particular one became the reference point for the chord progression in general - probably just because it's a totally straightforward, in-your-face, over-the-top version of it - but the Narnia comparison is particularly striking when you listen to these two sections:

Deep Blue Sea: https://youtu.be/bAB6GjK11dE?si=XfHWIECjwpQ9S8KG&t=50

Narnia: https://youtu.be/R4u5v0S-jSE?si=o-PvqxvtsKF-gxKQ&t=187

I totally get why people made the connection, given the 4 chords, some of the orchestration, the swell leading up to it, and the modulation. It's a lot in common, but that's where the similarities end. And it's essentially a short moment in DBS, while it's the heart of LWW (and then PC).

> Only since you used 'caliber,' which feels more about objective analysis
> rather than subjective feelings, I'm curious what in particular do you
> think is better about At World's End that's not just a taste/subjective
> thing? (Have to insert the disclaimer again because this is really and
> truly a genuine question and not me being feisty haha. And I love At
> World's End!)

At World's End has a thematic/narrative scope (in the sheer quantity of motivic ideas, their intelligent application and development, and the ensuing variety of tones that are explored within a still-cohesive whole) that is only exceeded or even matched by a very small handful of scores, and HGW's Narnia, though certainly no slouch in the thematic department, is not among them.

> At World's End has a thematic/narrative scope (in the sheer
> quantity of motivic ideas, their intelligent application and development,
> and the ensuing variety of tones that are explored within a still-cohesive
> whole) that is only exceeded or even matched by a very small handful of
> scores, and HGW's Narnia, though certainly no slouch in the
> thematic department, is not among them.

TBF, Caspian has that cue where the main theme has to recoalesce near the beginning in the Cair Paravel ruins. Which I don't think AWE has anything like that?

> TBF, Caspian has that cue where the main theme has to recoalesce near the beginning in the Cair Paravel ruins. Which I don't think AWE has anything like that?

Is this the first use of the word recoalesce in Scoreboard history?

> At World's End has a thematic/narrative scope (in the sheer
> quantity of motivic ideas, their intelligent application and development,
> and the ensuing variety of tones that are explored within a still-cohesive
> whole) that is only exceeded or even matched by a very small handful of
> scores, and HGW's Narnia, though certainly no slouch in the
> thematic department, is not among them.

Setting aside the comparison, since I've never explored that side of AWE in depth (would love to read up on it, if you know of any good analyses out there), I do feel like there's actually a lot more to the Narnia scores than many realize. I hesitate to go too deep, because I'm working on a thorough analysis that will come out in TBD form some day, but...

It's got 13-ish themes/motifs in the first film, then is juggling most of those plus at least 5 more in the second. There are probably around 10 minutes total in each score where one of those ideas isn't being featured in some way. The development is constantly doing all the really thoughtful, effective things I'd hope for musically (counterpoint, modulation, fragmentation, manipulation, etc.) and symbolically (referencing things you can't see, adding meaning/depth, juxtaposing/connecting ideas, etc.). I'm honestly not sure what more I would ask out of a score from an objective perspective in terms of going for that type of thematic approach, but I've spent a lot of time digging in, which has really enhanced my appreciation. Obviously there are scores that have a greater quantity of ideas and theoretical complexity, though sometimes to their detriment. There is also a lot of tonal variety in Narnia that feels like it meshes well to me, but that aspect is more subjective and I know many don't agree there.

Anyway, might have to revisit the conversation once I share my thoughts in more detail!

> Yeah, I don't know. It just... never occurs to me to think about it or
> listen to it. That entire series of films just passed me by. I remember
> enjoying them fine in the moment, same with the scores, but then... they
> just left my brain entirely.

> I just went and re-read my review of Prince Caspian from back in the day
> (https://moviemusicuk.us/2008/05/16/the-chronicles-of-narnia-prince-caspian-harry-gregson-williams/)
> and it appears I said some reasonably nice things about it, but I haven't
> listened to it once in the intervening 17 years, which is probably
> indicative or something. I should probably add it as the fifth 'honorable
> mention' in the fantasy category from that year.

Well, I guess that means there's still a chance it'll hit different if/when you do get back around to it! Although if this occasion didn't prompt you to, then I'm not sure what will haha. I don't doubt the sincerity of yours or anyone's reactions at the time, but I do genuinely believe these are scores that would surprise many who reacted as you did if they returned to them after 15-20 more years of film score history.

> 1. PONYO, Joe Hisaishi

> 2. THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON, Alexandre Desplat

> 4. STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE, Danny Elfman

> 5. I WANT TO BE A SHELLFISH, Joe Hisaishi

> 6. EAGLE EYE, Brian Tyler

> 7. DEFIANCE, James Newton Howard

> 8. INDIANA JONES AND TRHE KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL, John Williams

> 9. TINKER BELL, Joel McNeely

Well, I liked all of these to varying degrees...

> 3. THE OTHER BOLEYN GIRL, Paul Cantelon

...but man, I recall this album doing absolutely nothing for me. Competent in a TV movie way but kind of inert.

Though I wonder how much of that was tied up in me also feeling the same way about the film. It felt unnecessary at the time given that Ray Winstone had already kicked ass in the role of Henry on TV, plus The Tudors was ongoing, but now we've also had Wolf Hall. "Anodyne" was a word used by a critic at the time and that still seems the best way to capture the shrugs it generated, all the more stupefying given the truly stacked supporting cast it had (Cumberbatch, David Morrissey, Mark Rylance, Juno Temple, Eddie Redmayne).

> 1. PONYO, Joe Hisaishi

Yet another reminder of how doofy Riley was in forgetting to put Ponyo on his list :/ although that might also be because I didn't see it in Canadian theatres till 2009, so maybe I've always had it in the wrong year.

> Yet another reminder of how doofy Riley was in forgetting to put Ponyo on his list :/ although that might also be because I didn't see it in Canadian theatres till 2009, so maybe I've always had it in the wrong year.

It’s the right year but only for the English language version of the credits song sung by younger siblings of Disney stars. Deeply shocked it didn’t take over the charts that summer, eh?

> It’s the right year but only for the English language version of the
> credits song sung by younger siblings of Disney stars. Deeply shocked it
> didn’t take over the charts that summer, eh?

"Ponyo, Ponyo, Ponyo, Ponyo, FISHY IN THE SEA!"

That's going on the Shelf of Atrocities right next to fuggin' "WINGLE-WANGLE-WINGLE-WANGLE". One million years in the quarry for both the English translator AND those younger siblings. Granite quarry, no less!

> I originally hadn't planned to do this, but I figured what the hell No
> commentary from me, just a straight list, Top 10 scores of 2008:

> 1. PONYO, Joe Hisaishi
> 2. THE CURIOUS CASE OF BENJAMIN BUTTON, Alexandre Desplat
> 3. THE OTHER BOLEYN GIRL, Paul Cantelon
> 4. STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE, Danny Elfman
> 5. I WANT TO BE A SHELLFISH, Joe Hisaishi
> 6. EAGLE EYE, Brian Tyler
> 7. DEFIANCE, James Newton Howard
> 8. INDIANA JONES AND TRHE KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL, John Williams
> 9. TINKER BELL, Joel McNeely
> 10. THE BOY IN THE STRIPED PYJAMAS, James Horner

> Composer of the Year: JOE HISAISHI

> Here's my actual awards article from that year:
> https://moviemusicuk.us/movie-music-uk-awards/movie-music-uk-awards-2008/

> Jon

Some great & very good choices Jon !

Based on the full albums personally i agree with:
The Crimson Wing(documentary nominee)
Defiance
Benjamin Button
Indiana Jones 4
i want to be a sellfisch
Tinkerbell

/

Also on my 2008 Best Scores List are these albums:

Emma Smith: My Story- Jenson
Narnia 2: Prince Caspian
The Last Princess - Sato
The Home of Dark Butterflies - Aaltio
Henry May Long , Waltz with Bashir - Richter
Departures - Hisaishi
The Demons of St Petersburg - Morricone
Amalia - Malo
The Happening
The Stoning of Soraya M. - Debney
Diario de Una Ninfomana - Banos & Marin
Frost/Nixon