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'I’m sorry, but I don’t think I can work with him.' Thoughts on Superman II

'I’m sorry, but I don’t think I can work with him.' Thoughts on Superman II
mastadge
(c-24-118-92-118.hsd1.mn.comcast.n
et)
Thursday, July 17, 2025 (6:09 a.m.) 

1) If Lester hadn't replaced Donner, Williams likely would have written an original score for Superman II. How high would that score place on your list of scores you'd love to hear but that never happened?

2) Does anyone who was old enough to care at the time remember what the response was to Superman II? Did reviews mention the music?

3) Now that we've had a bunch of post-Williams Superman scores, what's your preferred approach:

- adapt and arrange and pastiche Williams like Ken Thorne did for Superman II?

- totally original score with brief nod to Williams like Goldsmith did for Supergirl?

- original score embracing Williams themes like Ottman did for Superman Returns?

- totally ignore Williams like Zimmer did for Man of Steel?

- Repeatedly blare Williams themes like Fleming did for Superman?

- shit I left out Thorne's 3 and Sandy Courage's 4, which didn't deserve to be left out


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Re: 'I’m sorry, but I don’t think I can work with him.' Thoughts on Superman II
JBlough
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Thursday, July 17, 2025 (6:32 a.m.) 

> 1) If Lester hadn't replaced Donner, Williams likely would have written an original score for Superman II. How high would that score place on your list of scores you'd love to hear but that never happened?

It might’ve made 1980 the greatest year a film composer ever had.

> 3) Now that we've had a bunch of post-Williams Superman scores, what's your preferred approach:

> - adapt and arrange and pastiche Williams like Ken Thorne did for Superman II?

Kill it with fire

> - totally original score with brief nod to Williams like Goldsmith did for Supergirl?

It’s fine.

> - original score embracing Williams themes like Ottman did for Superman Returns?

Brilliant.

> - totally ignore Williams like Zimmer did for Man of Steel?

Almost totally ignore.

https://filmmusicnotes.com/hans-zimmers-score-for-man-of-steel/

> - Repeatedly blare Williams themes like Fleming did for Superman?

Haven’t heard or seen it. Only looking forward to one of those tasks though.

> - shit I left out Thorne's 3 and Sandy Courage's 4, which didn't deserve to be left out

3 should be left out. Somehow worse than his earlier cut-and-paste, though I haven’t heard either in over 15 years.

4 is one of the great scores for a truly abysmal movie.



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Re: 'I’m sorry, but I don’t think I can work with him.' Thoughts on Superman II
Solaris
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Thursday, July 17, 2025 (7:26 a.m.) 
Now Playing: X-Men United (John Powell)

> 1) If Lester hadn't replaced Donner, Williams likely would have written an
> original score for Superman II. How high would that score place on your
> list of scores you'd love to hear but that never happened?

I would have loved to hear it, although I wonder how much different it would have been compared to what Thorne eventually ended up contributing: Basing the Villain Material off the music heard during the Origial Movies' sentencing Scene is a completely valid approach, I think. Its entirely possible though that Williams could have come up with an entirey new Villain Theme, just like he wrote the Imperial March to replace the Imperial Motif from ANH.

In other words: Would it have been a copy-and-paste Job (like "Home Alone 2") or a classic Williams-Sequel-Score?

> 3) Now that we've had a bunch of post-Williams Superman scores, what's
> your preferred approach:

All of them are valid, depending on context:

> - adapt and arrange and pastiche Williams like Ken Thorne did for Superman
> II?

> - original score embracing Williams themes like Ottman did for Superman
> Returns?

These two approaches work if its a Superman-Movie set in the same timeline as the one Williams wrote the Music for.

Although Courages' score for "Quest of Peace" would be the better example (my second-favourite of the Franchise, by the way)

> - totally original score with brief nod to Williams like Goldsmith did for
> Supergirl?

This works if its *not* a Superman-Movie but still set in the same timeline (if its about a different Character in some way connected to Superman)

> - totally ignore Williams like Zimmer did for Man of Steel?

Works if its a Superman-Movie otherwise *not* connected with the OG-Films.

> - Repeatedly blare Williams themes like Fleming did for Superman?

Depends on how well the Score is executed and how well these quotes are implemented.

---

I've been thinking about this and came up with the same opinion every time: That I think using Williams' Themes in any meaningful capacity only makes sense to me conceptually if the movie itself is somehow connected to the OG-Films (like "Returns" was). That doesn't mean it couldn't have worked as an enjoyable Score, though. If, say, John Powell had been hired to score the 2025-Film and delivered an Alexander Courage-esque adaptation with a couple of new Themes mixed with the Williams'-Material (like he did for "Solo") it still probably would have made 100% sense to me, but I very likely would have enjoyed the hell out of it. On the other hand: What if Daniel Pemberton would have been given the chance to apply his trademark creativity to this assignment and played around with it? Would have been... interesting, I believe. smile


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Steven P.
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Thursday, July 17, 2025 (3:42 p.m.) 
Now Playing: The Terminal - Williams

> 1) If Lester hadn't replaced Donner, Williams likely would have written an
> original score for Superman II. How high would that score place on your
> list of scores you'd love to hear but that never happened?

I feel like the monkey's paw response to this question is that if Williams is fully dedicated to a Superman II score, one of his others from this era would suffer, and not sure it's worth the exchange.

> 3) Now that we've had a bunch of post-Williams Superman scores, what's
> your preferred approach:

> - adapt and arrange and pastiche Williams like Ken Thorne did for Superman
> II?

> - totally original score with brief nod to Williams like Goldsmith did for
> Supergirl?

> - original score embracing Williams themes like Ottman did for Superman
> Returns?

> - totally ignore Williams like Zimmer did for Man of Steel?

> - Repeatedly blare Williams themes like Fleming did for Superman?

> - shit I left out Thorne's 3 and Sandy Courage's 4, which didn't deserve
> to be left out

I think we need to move past the Williams theme for Superman. There was a very good theme for the 90's animated show by Walker that worked well post-Williams (I think Smallville too, but it's been way too long since I've seen that show to know for certain). No reason another talented composer can't give us a new theme that still embodies the character of Superman.

Heck, I was listening to Horner's The Amazing Spider-man yesterday, and I still think that theme wouldn't be out of place for Superman too.


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