I threw a few musicals on my 2007 long list, because I figured John would not forgive me if I didn't listen to Enchanted. Also because other people seem to really like Sweeney Todd and Hairspray, even though I had some skepticism about how much original work was done in the adaptation. But I threw one other musical onto the list, and now I'm in trouble.

Once has no original score. But it's a movie about two musicians, who perform songs throughout the movie, which also convey the emotions of the characters. In a way, despite it being a very grounded movie, it's still in the vein of a classic musical, because the characters are able to express themselves through the music in ways they can't allow themselves to express in regular conversation.

Once also has this, which I'm sure you've heard, and it's basically one of the best songs ever written for a movie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8toUHjfE0E

So... should this count for our 2007 awards? On the one hand, it's an original soundtrack for a movie from 2007. On the other, I wonder if it's not quite in the spirit of what we do and vote on here. We never really made a ruling about it during the Extravaganza, but I guess also no one voted for like Trouble Man or Purple Rain so it never became an issue.

I also worry John's response will amount to "Do what you want," which would be entirely fair and also unhelpful to me haha. Interested to hear how y'all feel about this in addition to getting a ruling from him.

Rad-swaggity.

> I threw a few musicals on my 2007 long list, because I figured John would
> not forgive me if I didn't listen to Enchanted.

I actually seem to rate Enchanted lower than others. It's well-made and funny, but neither songs nor score have ever resonated beyond that.

> Also because other people
> seem to really like Sweeney Todd and Hairspray, even though I had some
> skepticism about how much original work was done in the adaptation. But I
> threw one other musical onto the list, and now I'm in trouble.

I'm not including either because I think most things I like about them were already there. Sweeney Todd in epic scope is very fun to hear though.

> Once has no original score. But it's a movie about two musicians, who
> perform songs throughout the movie, which also convey the emotions of the
> characters. In a way, despite it being a very grounded movie, it's still
> in the vein of a classic musical, because the characters are able to
> express themselves through the music in ways they can't allow themselves
> to express in regular conversation.

> Once also has this, which I'm sure you've heard, and it's basically one of
> the best songs ever written for a movie.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8toUHjfE0E

> So... should this count for our 2007 awards? On the one hand, it's an
> original soundtrack for a movie from 2007. On the other, I wonder if it's
> not quite in the spirit of what we do and vote on here. We never really
> made a ruling about it during the Extravaganza, but I guess also no one
> voted for like Trouble Man or Purple Rain so it never became an issue.

> I also worry John's response will amount to 'Do what you want,' which
> would be entirely fair and also unhelpful to me haha. Interested to hear
> how y'all feel about this in addition to getting a ruling from him.

Do what you want (is Craig's stance, and therefore mine as his surrogate, though I'd probably say the same if I was making the rules from scratch).

Since I tend to separate songs and score (which I think require different approaches and do different things for films) and to focus my votes in these polls on scores, I personally won't consider it because of the lack of score. It's not a black-and-white creative distinction; I just feel that's not what I'm voting about. But do what you want!

Also, since I won't be making a standalone post about 2007 until I share my list, I guess I'll use this post to share that so far what jumps out at me is that no one has voted for Partition, which might be Tyler's best score.

> I actually seem to rate Enchanted lower than others. It's well-made and
> funny, but neither songs nor score have ever resonated beyond that.

> I'm not including either because I think most things I like about them
> were already there. Sweeney Todd in epic scope is very fun to hear though.

> Do what you want (is Craig's stance, and therefore mine as his surrogate,
> though I'd probably say the same if I was making the rules from scratch).

Haha this is as helpful as I expected.

> Since I tend to separate songs and score (which I think require different
> approaches and do different things for films) and to focus my votes in
> these polls on scores, I personally won't consider it because of the lack
> of score. It's not a black-and-white creative distinction; I just feel
> that's not what I'm voting about. But do what you want!

Yeah. From all of our previous poll work you know I'm drifting more towards a sort of absolutist position: any original music written for and used in the film should be considered. Obviously Once is at the far end of the spectrum, but given my tendency to consider any of the midpoints between something like this and something that's pure underscore, it feels like the natural endpoint of my slippery slope. Until we reach 2000 and suddenly I'm trying to figure out how much of O Brother Where Art Thou? is new material versus traditional folk tunes.

> Also, since I won't be making a standalone post about 2007 until I share
> my list, I guess I'll use this post to share that so far what jumps out at
> me is that no one has voted for Partition, which might be Tyler's best
> score.

I can see a case for it, and it's very lovely. But I've never quite latched onto it, and more recently another problem for me is that there's now a much better score for a film centered around the same historical event.

Also, having finished all of Tyler's 2007 scores today (what an extraordinarily mixed bag)... I'm not entirely sure Partition will even be his highest ranking score for me.

> I threw a few musicals on my 2007 long list, because I figured John would
> not forgive me if I didn't listen to Enchanted. Also because other people
> seem to really like Sweeney Todd and Hairspray, even though I had some
> skepticism about how much original work was done in the adaptation. But I
> threw one other musical onto the list, and now I'm in trouble.

> Once has no original score. But it's a movie about two musicians, who
> perform songs throughout the movie, which also convey the emotions of the
> characters. In a way, despite it being a very grounded movie, it's still
> in the vein of a classic musical, because the characters are able to
> express themselves through the music in ways they can't allow themselves
> to express in regular conversation.

> Once also has this, which I'm sure you've heard, and it's basically one of
> the best songs ever written for a movie.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8toUHjfE0E

> So... should this count for our 2007 awards? On the one hand, it's an
> original soundtrack for a movie from 2007. On the other, I wonder if it's
> not quite in the spirit of what we do and vote on here. We never really
> made a ruling about it during the Extravaganza, but I guess also no one
> voted for like Trouble Man or Purple Rain so it never became an issue.

> I also worry John's response will amount to 'Do what you want,' which
> would be entirely fair and also unhelpful to me haha. Interested to hear
> how y'all feel about this in addition to getting a ruling from him.

> Rad-swaggity.

It's a tricky one, cause once (nyuk) we open it up to soundtracks with no score, then we could also say trailer music counts, and non-original needle drops cause they're used so effectively, etc.

And at the same time, as we talked about on Facebook - Once is probably my most listened to 2007 album haha, the songs are absolutely wonderful and more key to the success of that delightful film than damn near any other score or soundtrack of that year.

So I dunno...do what sings your heart's song :P

> It's a tricky one, cause once (nyuk) we open it up to soundtracks with no
> score, then we could also say trailer music counts, and non-original
> needle drops cause they're used so effectively, etc.

I'm not sure I see that pathway. As I said in my response to John, I feel like my line is "original music written for the film," which Once very obviously clears. To use a 2007 comparison, it's like Enchanted but if Menken didn't write a score to go with the songs.

> And at the same time, as we talked about on Facebook - Once is probably my
> most listened to 2007 album haha, the songs are absolutely wonderful and
> more key to the success of that delightful film than damn near any other
> score or soundtrack of that year.

> So I dunno...do what sings your heart's song :P

Lol yeah, guess we'll see.