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Zimmer & friends pt 8d - TBTF 2013-16: Cap, Rio, HTTYD, Spidey 2s + Trans4mrs

Zimmer & friends pt 8d - TBTF 2013-16: Cap, Rio, HTTYD, Spidey 2s + Trans4mrs
JBlough
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Wednesday, December 14, 2022 (5:12 a.m.) 

This is part of a series (a long-running series at this point).
- Here’s the last post on Planes, Pacific Rim, etc. - https://www.filmtracks.com/scoreboard/forum.cgi?read=117113
- If you want the full set of links covering the Too Big To Fail era or earlier, click on my profile.

Behold, my attempt at keeping these write-ups a bit more succinct falls flat on its ass!

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Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014) - **
Henry Jackman; add’l music by Dominic Lewis & Matthew Margeson; orchestrated by Stephen Coleman; conducted by
Gavin Greenaway; score technical engineers Vivian Aguiar-Buff & Jason Soudah; music sound design Victor Chaga

This Captain America sequel remains not just one of the best films from the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but also one of its most consequential - it revealed that the government agency S.H.I.E.L.D. contained the remnants of a secret Nazi cult (necessitating a complete rip-up of the plot of concurrent TV series Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.), its pivot to a modern paranoid thriller setting morphed Cap from a historical figure into a cool action hero, and it catapulted the Russo brothers from respected television directors into the helmsmen of billion dollar blockbusters. It would also lead to a huge shift in the character’s music, as Alan Silvestri’s memorable idea from the initial World War 2-set film was completely jettisoned by Henry Jackman.

There were definitely intellectual arguments for not reusing the rousing identity for the character, what with this being a different time setting and honestly a different movie genre (plus Cap was fighting for his country in that first story and questioning it in this entry). “It was aesthetically far from the first one. [We needed] a theme that doesn’t sound nostalgic that can still emerge from under the action.” But the new theme, largely based on an ascending three note idea, felt a little too close to Dark Knight territory, even if Jackman was doing different things with it (chopping First Class strings, manipulated percussion, and so on). It maintained the requisite level of activity, but at the cost of genericizing the character. Never mind that other composers on later MCU entries found ways to reinterpret Silvetri’s theme in ways that didn’t reek of rah-rah patriotism.

More astonishing was the intentionally abrasive music for the Winter Soldier villain which pushed Jackman’s earlier attitudes about toggling between symphonic and pop-adjacent fare to the extreme and doubled down on the Dark Knight hero/villain dichotomy. “The suite is un-orchestral, brutal, unrelenting and mechanized, industrial noise, and deliberately hideous. Had it been another period film, I would have engaged in a traditional symphonic score and that would have been fantastic. However, there’s something incredibly contemporary about the film. [The Russos were] either going to love it or never put it in. And they were really receptive. This guy’s trapped in a Kafkaesque scenario, a cross between RoboCop and Terminator.”

Another 6-minute Hydra suite and 40ish minutes of score would round out the album, all basically sitting within the contemporary wheelhouse of those aforementioned Cap and Winter Soldier suites. Perhaps it’s a small surprise that much of it ends up just being shrug-inducing and predictable instead of the obnoxious avante-garde screech-fest it could’ve been. Still, fans of more traditionalist film scores (even those who liked but didn’t adore Silvestri’s entry) ran for the hills. Of the many examples of Marvel’s decisionmakers eschewing musical continuity in their sequels, this one is perhaps the most frustrating.


Game of Thrones Season 4 (2014) - ***
Ramin Djawadi; orchestrated by Stephen Coleman; technical score advisors Brandon Campbell & William Marriott

Season 1 was covered here: https://www.filmtracks.com/scoreboard/forum.cgi?read=112891
Season 2 was covered here: https://www.filmtracks.com/scoreboard/forum.cgi?read=113090
Season 3 was covered here: https://www.filmtracks.com/scoreboard/forum.cgi?read=117113

The hit show would unleash what is now generally regarded as its finest season, with the debut of the charismatic Oberyn Martell, another deadly wedding, and the impressively-realized Battle for the Wall. Like Season 3, there would be a few new elements to the score (the stomping music for the cannibalistic Thenns, for example) but the bulk of the runtime would be dedicated to new takes on existing themes. The result was enjoyable enough but a tad familiar, and listeners would also have to contend with an abundance of functional action/horror music that didn’t consistently translate into an engaging album experience.


Rio 2 (2014) - ***½
John Powell; add’l music, MIDI orchestration, arranging and/or programming by Paul Mounsey,
Anthony Willis & Germaine Franco; orchestrated by John Ashton Thomas, Rick Giovinazzo, Andrew Kinney,
Randy Kerber, Mark Graham, Nicholas Pike, José Serebrier, Germaine Franco, Dave Metzger, Jeff Atmajian,
Brad Dechter, Victor Pesavento & Greg Jamrok; conducted by José Serebrier; a TON of featured instrumentalists;
songs written and/or produced by John Powell, Sergio Mendes, Carlinhos Brown, Andre Hosoi, Renato Epstein,
Bruno Mars, Philip Lawrence, Taura Stinson, Jeeve, Michael Diskint, Flavia Maia, Siedah Garrett, Randy Rogel,
Jemaine Clement, Yoni Brenner, Mikael Mutti, Janelle Monae, Nathaniel Irvin III, Roman Irvin, Nate Wonder,
Chuck LIghtning, Roman GianArthur & George 2.0; digital score production by Beth Caucci & Victor Chaga

Rio was covered here: https://www.filmtracks.com/scoreboard/forum.cgi?read=112891

This jungle-centric sequel to 2011’s hit macaw musical featured the first score by John Powell in almost two years, as the composer had taken a sabbatical following his 2012 output. “I’d spent 15 years feeling I was behind on my homework. You’re on a film and you have to start writing the next one. Having a year off was fantastic. And then I had to do this, but I was warmed up again.” Powell used the Amazon setting as an opportunity for all manner of flutes, woodwinds, and vocals. The music is a little less slapstick than the first film’s, resulting in a more coherent listening experience but perhaps disappointing for listeners who found the wilder moments of Rio to be highlights. The composer also introduced a number of solid new themes alongside adaptations of his legacy ones, though the jumbled plot meant that none of these ideas really got a lot of opportunities to shine.

It was also another opportunity for Powell to indulge in a host of Brazilian musical styles and collaborate with various regional stars and pop artists on songs - all contained on a separate song album (as with Rio and the first Happy Feet) which likely frustrated fans who wanted an integrated listening experience. A gleefully over-the-top piece for Kristin Chenoweth’s lovelorn frog character was the easy highlight of the otherwise sufficient songs, while an energetic track covering the mid-film bird soccer game played more like a score track and honestly would’ve made more sense on the other album.

LIke Rio, the songs and score of Rio 2 made for an above-average good time, though I wouldn’t blame you if you forgot about the music in the wake of the other Powell animated sequel score that was unleashed a few months later…


How To Train Your Dragon 2 (2014) - *****...but really it’s a scale-breaking 6 stars
John Powell; add’l music, arranging, MIDI orchestration & programming by Paul Mounsey & Anthony Willis; orchestrated by
John Ashton Thomas, Randy Kerber, Dave Metzger, Tommy Laurence, Pete Anthony, Germaine Franco & Jeff Atmajian;
conducted by Gavin Greenaway; digital score production Beth Caucci & Victor Chaga; songs by Powell & Jon Thor Birgisson

HTTYD was covered here: https://www.filmtracks.com/scoreboard/forum.cgi?read=112368

“Film scores tend to be a bit donut-y, lots of whole notes that just sit there and don’t do much. I hate [to bore] musicians. They’re virtuosos, used to playing incredibly difficult music. I love fucking around with the brass. It’s not just stupidly difficult; hopefully it has some kind of emotion that’s worth listening to. When it’s got that fast-moving intricacy played properly, it’s very exciting.”

It was tempting at times in the late aughts and early 2010s to muse about combining the brief highlights from John Powell’s zanier efforts into one massive opus, daydreaming of some nothing-but-highlights album for a theoretical score that would never actually be written. Welp, for me, How To Train Your Dragon 2 was basically that theoretical highlight score made real. It is entirely possible that I, a guy who usually avoids back-to-back listens to anything, played that album 30 times in a row when it came out. Perhaps the only reason I didn’t do that for the recent expanded album release is because it came out only a bit before I started this rundown. A recent reshuffling of all my 5-star scores put this at my #15 score all time, easily the highest ranking for an animated film, cementing its place as the finest score outside of Howard Shore’s Lord of the Rings since the mid-1990s.

It is almost impossible for me to write about this score without turning into a fanboy lunatic (never mind that it was the last score perspective I completed in rundown part 8, a case of procrastination and / or writer’s block probably not seen since I wrote about the first How To Train Your Dragon months ago), but I’m gonna try!

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“I remember Jeffrey on Antz saying, ‘You're not scoring an animated film. Think of this as live action.’ He's now ironically relaxed that. If anything, he was the one on this one who probably got me to lighten the score a little bit for a younger audience.”

How To Train Your Dragon was an undeniable success. With Dreamworks rarely hesitating to pump out follow-up films for anything that did well at the box office, a sequel was given the go-ahead in 2010 with an original release target of 2013, a date that eventually moved to 2014 in part because studio head Jeffrey Katzenberg would push back on some of the darker elements of director Dean DeBlois’ vision for the lead character Hiccup reuniting with his long-lost mother. Composer John Powell’s work for that earlier film was widely considered the high point of his career and film music in 2010 (and possibly the finest of the MV / RC musical lineage), even getting an Academy Award nomination for his work, and his assignment for the sequel was no surprise even accounting for the sabbatical he took during part of the film’s production process.

“I’ve seen plenty of films with music with no connection to the story. Casino, they’re all needle drops, [but it’s a] fantastic movie. Dean seems to appreciate attention to the form of storytelling, so I try to stay attached to those ideas.”

Powell would later relay a funny story about encountering DeBlois at an awards party and (possibly drunkenly) demanding DeBlois not put any of his music from the first film in the temp track for the second film. Powell would get his wish - “it was [almost] all Dark Knight in the temp” - though with the hilarious unintended consequence of getting Zimmer’s famed Journey to the Line from The Thin Red Line (a score Powell had worked on) in there as well. “When that's in your temp, it's hell. You won't spot it though, because what I ended up with doesn’t sound anything like it.” Powell couldn’t quite escape the former score, as there were a few minutes that ended up being very familiar, perhaps an inevitability given the tight timelines composers sometimes operate under on franchises. Still, one of those passages, Dragon Racing, was a hell of a way to open the film. “In the first five minutes I did basically every tune from the first movie in a new version. An overture, really. I knew I had to make everybody comfortable, back in a sound and a world we recognize. And from there onwards you look for moments at which the audience feels the story is really moving forward, and that's when you start to carefully introduce a new theme.”

Over-indexing on familiar components (in a score 80+ minutes long!) obscures just how note-perfect the balance is between old and new in the rest of it. Nearly every theme from Dragon returns with new variations, and Powell added a bunch of new ones (all bangers). The two that function as the sequel score’s main themes were both related to the character Hiccup’s adolescence and maturity, one a mournful-yet-triumphant “lost and found” idea that orbits around his relationship with his mom and the other an elegant-yet-playful “mapping the world” idea that doubles for his adventures. A mid-film sequence accompanied by buoyant takes on both ideas (Flying With Mother on album) would win Powell an award for track of the year from the International Film Music Critics Association, though its creation wasn’t the smoothest process. “There used to be a song. It wasn’t working; kid test audiences were getting bored. Dean didn’t want to take [the scene] out. I loved it - you’re finally meeting [your mom] and she happens to be into exactly what you’re into, it’s the greatest day. But it was hard to [score]. I started too slow and Katzenberg said, ‘What the hell are you doing?’ I [found] the right tempo, the right key, but to get to that point [took] 99% of the time.”

Other elements in the strong roster of new themes included a magisterial Alpha dragon idea with subtle touches of antiquity (almost suggesting Hungarian composer Miklós Rózsa at times) and a love theme for Hiccup’s reunited parents. Choral outbursts abound throughout the film, taking the composer’s talent for exultant vocals to new heights. And the enormous finale, with its gargantuan outburst of the friendship theme and Toothless rhythm played in parallel, will give any good speaker system a healthy workout. I’m sure there are 50 other amazing things I could mention if I took the time to truly indulge in the fanboy lunacy I warned about earlier. Like I said, nothing but highlights.

“I was getting old, the characters were getting old, and my style was getting old. So I just had to be happy with the fact that I was sounding old-fashioned. I used to be hip, apparently, and now I’m this old fart that does only orchestral music and tunes.”

One more thing! Years later, Powell and DeBlois were drinking in Powell’s studio and the director copped to making two temp tracks: one for everyone else (which had some of the music from the first Dragon) and one for the composer (which didn’t).


Transformers: Age of Extinction (2014) - **
Steve Jablonsky; add’l music by Jacob Shea, Joseph Trapanese, Dave Fleming & Michael Yezerski; add’l music sound design
by Skrillex; orchestrated by B&W Fowler/Moriarty, Carl Rydlund & Jennifer Hammond; conducted by Nick Glennie-Smith; technical
score engineer Lori Castro; songs Imagine Dragons; add’l music production Hans Zimmer; thank you to HGW & Bob Badami

TBTF discovery #15.

Transformers was covered here: https://www.filmtracks.com/scoreboard/forum.cgi?read=109608
Revenge of the Fallen was covered here: https://www.filmtracks.com/scoreboard/forum.cgi?read=111761
Dark of the Moon was covered here: https://www.filmtracks.com/scoreboard/forum.cgi?read=113009

“Now it’s full of action, but in that early stage the film was a lot of sweeping, panning shots of nothing. I would call Michael regularly and say, ‘What is happening? Can you describe it to me one more time?’ But that’s the nature of these movies.”

The fourth Transformers film would be somewhat of a soft reboot, jettisoning Shia LaBeouf and many of the original trilogy’s bots in favor of Mark Wahlberg, Stanley Tucci’s tech guru, Dinobots, and subservience to the Chinese government. The latter was perhaps a reflection of these movies now being far more successful overseas than they were at home; the movie’s grosses in China would surpass those from the U.S. Director Michael Bay would at least keep franchise mainstay Optimus Prime and his regular composer Steve Jablonsky. “My initial approach was writing new themes; all the humans are new. Midway, we started feeling we needed to refer back to some original themes. But for the most part it’s brand new material.”

Granted, that inclination towards reinvention wasn’t new to the music of the franchise; large swaths of Jablonsky’s Dark of the Moon score played like epic Remote Control library music with little relation to the prior films’ scores. But how the saga’s music had evolved (transformed?) was still rather frustrating, as Age of Extinction was perhaps the first summer blockbuster score to be heavily influenced by the success of what Hans Zimmer and Tom Holkenborg did for Man of Steel. If several passages featuring BIG. DRUM. RHYTHMS aren’t a dead giveaway of that, the moments of outright temp track imitation certainly will be. A few other pieces sound like carryovers from Tron: Legacy or Oblivion, no surprise as their composer Joe Trapanese was an additional contributor here.

Linkin Park had played a prominent role in the music of the original trilogy, with one of their songs used in the first film’s end credits and the band even contributing a theme for Revenge of the Fallen, but would seemingly have no role in this entry (though lead singer Chester Bennington claimed some discussions were going on earlier in the year). Instead, the pop rock band Imagine Dragons would be heavily featured. A song the group wrote was integrated into the score by Jablonsky, and the group’s vocals were even used at several points. “It’s like a score-song piece, a little bit different from what we’ve done in the past. Hans was kind enough to offer his giant room for a weekend and we just jammed and came up with some cool ideas.”

If you’re a little more wired for this score’s style than I am (or just enjoy the work of the DJ Skrillex, a key contributor here), you should be warned that finding the score is now quite tricky. An unwillingness by the rights holders to pay certain re-use fees, the case with Dark of the Moon but not with the prior two scores, led to the album being pulled from digital stores after a set number of purchases; Jablonsky lamented this on Facebook. Fans these days have to content themselves with an EP containing four of Jablonsky’s suites on streaming services or hunt down a CD from La-La Land Records that’s now out-of-print and being offered at ludicrous prices by resellers. But for many listeners this score won’t be worth the trouble, save perhaps for the guilty pleasure joys of Autobots Unite and Dinobots Charge as well as the fleetingly few moments that quote the memorable themes from earlier films which were the whole reason this heavily derivative musical concept even worked in the first place.


The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014) - ***½
Hans Zimmer, Michael Einziger, Tom Holkenborg, Andrew Kawczynski, Johnny Marr, Steve Mazzaro & Pharrell Williams;
add’l music by Andy Page, Adam Peters, Czarina Russell & Mario Reinsch; orchestrated by B&W&R Fowler/Moriarty &
Kevin Kaska; conducted by Nick Glennie-Smith; technical engineers Chuck Choi, Stephanie McNally & Jacqueline Friedberg;
soloists Dominic Lewis, Tom Boyd, Ann Marie Simpson, Stuart Clark, Randy Cooke, Steve Erdody, Walt Fowler,
Satnam Ramgotra & Arturo Sandoval; score wrangler Bob Badami; produced by Zimmer & Stephen Lipson;
songs also by Alicia Keys; ‘It’s On Again’ featuring Kendrick Lamar; Cynthia Park as Zimmer’s assistant; thank you to Skrillex

TBTF discovery #16.

Not learning any lessons from having too many villains in the third entry of its Tobey Maguire-starring trilogy from the aughts, Sony put too many villains in the second entry to its Andrew Garfield-starring franchise in the next decade, perhaps betraying insecurities over lacking a shared cinematic universe like Marvel’s. Critics would heap scorn on it, and its disappointing box office performance would push the studio towards producing spin-off films involving villains while letting Marvel Studios take a crack at the character. For the 2012 entry, Titanic composer James Horner had been a surprise choice yet had managed to deliver a terrific score, possibly his last consensus great work of his career (tragically cut short a few years later by a plane crash).

A making-of video about the music featured glowing comments from director Mark Webb, who would return for the sequel. And yet Horner wouldn’t follow, as Zimmer was announced as the composer only a month after Man of Steel came out. Horner claimed he and Webb had a great relationship and “there was a chance to write something for the two lead characters and then she dies, but the studio only wanted action [and] the movie ended up being just dreadful,” so he dropped out. Yet the studio may have wanted to move on from Horner anyway, as the aforementioned infamous Sony communications leak would show co-chair Amy Pascal enthusiastically forwarding an email about how millennials love electronic dance music (EDM) and that it would be great to have a ”killer DJ.” Later tawdry rumors about Pascal and Zimmer having an affair were never substantiated.

A whopping seven composers would be credited - Zimmer, singer/songwriter Pharrell, Inception guitarist Johnny Marr, the artist formerly known as Junkie XL, Incubus guitarist Michael Einziger, and two of Zimmer’s team members - plus another seven additional composers / technical engineers (plus violinist Rhea Fowler, the daughter of longtime Zimmer orchestrators Bruce Fowler & Suzette Moriarty, as one of the orchestrators). The more famous contributors joined Zimmer for a three-day jam session, with the massive support team likely tasked with translating said brainstorming into a workable score. It was nice to have more than just Zimmer’s name on the album cover given how many others were involved (as opposed to, say, the Madagascar scores). But while the approach did lead to some wild creativity, it also produced an all-over-the-place work that doesn’t quite congeal.

That aforementioned EDM element did show up in one part, a part that many entertainment journalists and film reviewers (who on average don’t consistently mention film music) mentioned: the Electro theme. Fat synth pulses. Dance music sounds. Even lyrics mirroring the character’s madness and paranoia, courtesy of Pharrell after he took a break from the gang’s jam session to walk around the block. And Zimmer wouldn’t even stop there, also adding in a bunch of guitar shrieks and pulsing woodwinds. It was almost hilarious how unsubtle the approach was, and yet it was hard to argue with its general effectiveness. Not quite as effective was the Harry / Goblin material which generally played more like par-for-the-course Remote Control villainy music, complete with the obnoxious guitar wail that had defined Zimmer’s contributions to Crysis 2. It may seem silly to some to quibble with the carryover of an idea from a forgotten 2011 video game, especially with Horner reusing several of his own musical devices in the prior film, but it was still an odd moment of redundancy from a composer seemingly obsessed with reinvention.

Zimmer’s heroic theme would fare better, especially in its most prominent Copland-like brass outbursts at the film’s bookends, with a welcome appearance from regular orchestrator Walt Fowler on solo trumpet (catnip for those who loved his performances on Broken Arrow). The team would extend the idea into a variety of light rock settings for more personal moments, providing a nice point of differentiation from earlier Zimmer blockbusters which had tended to only make their themes louder or faster. At times, you can barely tell you’re listening to a superhero score. Alas, few of these ideas interact with each other (save maybe for some occasional collisions between the Spidey and Electro material), creating a disparate experience that might trick some listeners into thinking Zimmer and crew were doing a last-minute replacement job. It was fascinating and frustrating in equal increments, and if nothing else it was a nice change of pace from Zimmer’s typically portentous, self-serious superhero fare.

If you wanted the more self-serious version of Zimmer’s music, you just had to wait a few months…

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Next time: “My pitch was something I could’ve shown to my music professor. Dead straight, strict, pompous as hell.”



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Re: all hail our lord and savior John Powell
madtrombone
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Wednesday, December 14, 2022 (5:41 a.m.) 

> Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014) - **
This, for me, is a * star. This score is a massive contributing factor to Marvel scores slipping into Zimmer droning anonymity, making this muck just as normal to Marvel execs as Alan Silvestri fanfares. I had to lie down after listening to this one because it gave me a migraine. I haven't returned to it since, and have no intention to.

> Rio 2 (2014) - ***½
> an energetic track covering the mid-film bird soccer game played more like a score
> track and honestly would’ve made more sense on the other album.
I think this track is stronger than anything else on either album. It's a blast and feels even MORE passionate than all of the score, which is solid as usual.

> How To Train Your Dragon 2 (2014) - *****...but really it’s a
> scale-breaking 6 stars
What is there to say about this score that hasn't already been said? I WISH I was into film scores in 2014 so I could have experienced this on release and shit myself with glee like everyone else. I prefer the first HTTYD score more (just a smidge, it's very close), but I think in terms of intelligence, this is Powell's magnum opus.

> The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014) - ***½
*cringes* Yeah, this one is like a ** for me. The heroic theme is ok but not great, the action stuff is generic, and the Electro material doesn't instill an ounce of fear or paranoia in me. Instead, it makes me cackle with goofy laughter because of how juvenile it is.
> soloists Dominic Lewis, Arturo Sandoval
What did these two play? I think I ought to have noticed the latter for sure!

> Next time: “My pitch was something I could’ve shown to my music
> professor. Dead straight, strict, pompous as hell.”

I don't know what this quote entails, but I like this description.


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Re: all hail our lord and savior John Powell
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Wednesday, December 14, 2022 (6:28 a.m.) 

> What did these two play? I think I ought to have noticed the latter for sure!

Dominic Lewis was one of the credited vocalists. I assume that means that's his voice in the Electro material.

As for Arturo Sandoval, I have no idea where he is in the mix; as with Man of Steel, some of the individualistic performance flair is squeezed out of the mix. But at least he provided this dope quote!

'When [composers] ask me, I bring my heart and passion for music - and also my pride for my sound. My trumpet sound is my voice, my way of expressing my feelings. They really needed that full, beautiful, thick, fat sound, and I love that.'



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Re: all hail our lord and savior John Powell
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Wednesday, December 14, 2022 (11:27 a.m.) 

No way, Dominic Lewis is the guy singing in the Electro Suite? Doubles my respect for him.


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Re: Zimmer & friends pt 8d - TBTF 2013-16: Cap, Rio, HTTYD, Spidey 2s + Trans4mrs
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Wednesday, December 14, 2022 (9:39 a.m.) 
Now Playing: Danny Elfman - Dr. Seuss' The Grinch

I think Rio 2 is a better, more dynamic score and songs than Rio 1 overall (I listen to both soundtracks in film order), but you're right that the sequel's crappy plot - piss-poor pacing and ending - actively makes the score worse than the sum of its parts.

While I sometimes mentally flip-flop between Dragon 1 and Dragon 2 as being better, I generally think 2 comes out on top and is Powell's very best score. Not only does it plus on the original in most aspects, there's also not a single dull moment in that entire score; the first score's original 25-track album back in 2010 is an absolutely perfect curation, while the full presentation on the Deluxe Edition is still excellent but slightly less well-paced. Dragon 3 is at a respectable third place; I ponder if it's a weak ***** or a ****½, but there are some nitpicks holding it back from 1 and 2.


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Re: Zimmer & friends pt 8d - TBTF 2013-16: Cap, Rio, HTTYD, Spidey 2s + Trans4mrs
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Wednesday, December 14, 2022 (10:07 a.m.) 

> I think Rio 2 is a better, more dynamic score and songs than Rio 1 overall (I listen to both soundtracks in film order), but you're right that the sequel's crappy plot - piss-poor pacing and ending - actively makes the score worse than the sum of its parts.

I actually watched Rio 2 for the first time as part of this rundown to figure out how to sequence the songs and score. It didn't offend me, but gosh, what a mess! It's a classic 'why pick a plot when 5 plots will do' follow-up film - which wasn't a problem in, say, Ice Age: The Meltdown (that sucker holds up very well). No wonder we didn't get a third.

Interestingly, the sequel's partial focus on the younger generation (Blue's children) mirrors what Blue Sky Studios was also trying to do with its later Ice Age sequels (Manny's daughter and her friends). I suppose 'how do you do, fellow kids?' isn't the worst way to combat diminishing returns, but it is a tad irritating when you do it in multiple films released around the same time.



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Re: Zimmer & friends pt 8d - TBTF 2013-16: Cap, Rio, HTTYD, Spidey 2s + Trans4mrs
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Wednesday, December 14, 2022 (10:07 a.m.) 

> How To Train Your Dragon 2 (2014) - *****...but really it’s a
> scale-breaking 6 stars

Scores like this are exactly why I use my augmented 5 star score rating system. I use 6 stars to designate scores in my top 20 overall and 5.5 stars to designate the rest of the scores in my top 100 overall!

I currently have HTTYD at #5 and HTTYD2 at #10!


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Re: Zimmer & friends pt 8d - TBTF 2013-16: Cap, Rio, HTTYD, Spidey 2s + Trans4mrs
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Wednesday, December 14, 2022 (10:45 a.m.) 

> Scores like this are exactly why I use my augmented 5 star score rating system. I use 6 stars to designate scores in my top 20 overall and 5.5 stars to designate the rest of the scores in my top 100 overall!

I did something similar earlier in the year when I realized that having 8 Williams scores in my top 25 probably needed a slightly different system of points than giving each the same weight as, say, something in my top 176-200. And of course that just had spillover effects with, like, everything.

Over-engineering your collection trackers and year/composer rankings - it's the best!

But publicly I'll just stick with a 1-5 star rating system.



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Re: Zimmer & friends pt 8d - TBTF 2013-16: Cap, Rio, HTTYD, Spidey 2s + Trans4mrs
Steven P.
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Wednesday, December 14, 2022 (2:33 p.m.) 
Now Playing: God of War: Ragnarok - McCreary

I didn't get to comment on your previous posts since you restarted this journey since I was a few days behind each of them, so let me just state now I'm another member super excited to see it continue.

> Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014) - **
> Henry Jackman; add’l music by Dominic Lewis & Matthew Margeson;
> orchestrated by Stephen Coleman; conducted by
> Gavin Greenaway; score technical engineers Vivian Aguiar-Buff & Jason
> Soudah; music sound design Victor Chaga

I agree here. I really like the film and think it deserved a better score. I can appreciate it in context, but all I can say is I'm glad the Russo's brought back Silvestri for Infinity War and Endgame. Not sure what Jackman would have done with those films.

> Game of Thrones Season 4 (2014) - ***
> Ramin Djawadi; orchestrated by Stephen Coleman; technical score
> advisors Brandon Campbell & William Marriott

Fair assessment.

> Rio 2 (2014) - ***½

Never heard this one.

> How To Train Your Dragon 2 (2014) - *****...but really it’s a
> scale-breaking 6 stars

Yep, best score of that year, and of the trilogy. The film was actually much better than I gave it credit for when I first saw it in theaters (thought the first film is still the best).

>
> Transformers: Age of Extinction (2014) - **

Such a shame that not of the sequels ever managed to capture the same guilty pleasure greatness of the first score.

>
> The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014) - ***½

I actually really like this score. It's a bit too busy, but I also think the various themes gives the album enough variety that it never gets boring.

I still find it odd that Horner and Zimmer both have competing stories about this film. From what I've read, Horner claimed that the studio wanted him back for the sequel but he didn't like the script or style the film was going in, and declined it. Zimmer said he was the first choice for the first Amazing Spider-man movie but couldn't do it due to timing, but the studio then approached him first again for the sequel and he was able to make it work with his schedule. Don't know if we will ever know the truth.

As for the film, I still find it hard to believe it's made by the same director. In fact, I really can't think of another film and sequel that has such a different feel when directed by the same person. Although it's my least favorite Spider-man film, I would have liked to see one more film before another reboot. Having a story focused on Peter's grief after the death of Gwen would have really explored some interesting areas for the character we've not seen before or since.



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Re: Zimmer & friends pt 8d - TBTF 2013-16: Cap, Rio, HTTYD, Spidey 2s + Trans4mrs
Soundtracker94
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com)
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Wednesday, December 14, 2022 (5:17 p.m.) 

Been a busier than expected week so missed your prior entry. That said... I actually have comments on several of these!! big grin

> -----------------------

> Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014) - **

I haven't revisited the score or the film in many years, but looking back at my contemporary review we agree pretty much. I clearly remember hating the Winter Soldier material in both the film and especially on album though Jackman did manage to give some scene specific highlights.

My old review if anyone is interested:
https://soundtrack-universe.blogspot.com/2014/04/captain-america-winter-soldier-digital.html?q=captain+america

> How To Train Your Dragon 2 (2014) - *****...but really it’s a
> scale-breaking 6 stars

I really need to revisit both score and film, though previously my affinity for Dragon 2 steadily decreased each time I watched it. That said, remember thinking the score was great but not as good as the first. Apparently this is not the right opinion, though. tongue Will probably give the HTTYD trilogy a re-watch in January and see how 2 stacks up now.

> Transformers: Age of Extinction (2014) - **

Again, we basically agree. Looking back at my contemporary review I was not impressed by Jablonsky's efforts and felt it fell short from the prior entires. Currently I can't remember anything about the score whatsoever. Remember various moments in the film (including that cringe "Romero & Juliet law" bit) but nothing in the music comes to mind. Guess that speaks volumes.

Again, my contemporary review if anyone is interested:
https://soundtrack-universe.blogspot.com/2014/07/transformers-age-of-extinction-review.html?q=transformers

> The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014) - ***½

The Elctro material kept this from getting that extra 1/2 from me, but considering the "jam session" methodology for ASM2 and the complete cluster that the movie was... Zimmer & Friends did alright. Had never read that quote from Horner but it's probably a good thing he left when he did. I honestly doubt his music would have been kept if he had stuck around.

All that said... I never return to this one. tongue If I ever need my non-Elfman Spider-Man fix it's always Horner's take.


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Re: Zimmer & friends pt 8d - TBTF 2013-16: Cap, Rio, HTTYD, Spidey 2s + Trans4mrs
JBlough
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Wednesday, December 14, 2022 (7:06 p.m.) 

> I really need to revisit both score and film, though previously my affinity for Dragon 2 steadily decreased each time I watched it. That said, remember thinking the score was great but not as good as the first. Apparently this is not the right opinion, though. tongue Will probably give the HTTYD trilogy a re-watch in January and see how 2 stacks up now.

If I recall community posts and polls accurately, people were fairly evenly split on which of the three scores they liked the most.

I do think that the Dragon sequels perhaps only really suffer in that they have to add villains. The first one didn't really have one except maybe societal intolerance, and it came before pretty much ever Disney movie became 'the villain is MISUNDERSTANDING, guys!' so it was a little more novel then. Drago was underdeveloped (with that development saved for a sequel that never happened) and Grimmel covered similar thematic ground (even though the casting of F. Murray Abraham was an inspired choice).

Also, while HTTYD 2 probably still averages out to a great film, 'good dragons under the influence of bad people do bad things' is an all-time cringe-worthy line.


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Re: Zimmer & friends pt 8d - TBTF 2013-16: Cap, Rio, HTTYD, Spidey 2s + Trans4mrs [EDITED]
Jonesy
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Friday, December 16, 2022 (9:15 a.m.) 

> -----------------------

> Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014) - **

I agree with Clemmensen's assessment: smarter than it was given credit for at first blush, but still very much of the contemporary zeitgeist. I personally do enjoy it, especially 'Taking a Stand' and 'Lemurian Star,' highlights of the hyper-processed RC action sound of the time. Jackman trotting out the usual excuse for ejecting the predecessor's theme is as flimsy as ever, always betrays a lack of imagination and sometimes even a lack of understanding of the character. But overall, I regard this one as being fun -- even though my finger hovers over 'skip' and 'fast-forward.' (Side story, I was in college when this one came out, and I had a really pretentious moment of feeling that this was the death of good orchestral music -- what the fuck I was thinking is unclear.)

> Game of Thrones Season 4 (2014) - ***

Dead-on. It's good music on an overlong album. Seasons to come would be much kinder.

> Rio 2 (2014) - ***½

> How To Train Your Dragon 2 (2014) - *****...but really it’s a
> scale-breaking 6 stars

Ten stars! Twenty! INFINITYYYY!

ahem. I am a major Powell fan, and this trilogy brings out my lunacy. In my sane moments, I disclaim that it's perhaps second to LotR. In my honest moments, I declare it to stand side-by-side. In my foaming-mouth ones, it's the pinnacle of film music. Only LotR, Star Wars and a select of the 50s Biblical epics can challenge it in my mind. Powell and his team crafted three of the best scores (EVAR!) in my view. It took me a few listens at the time to understand just how favorably it compares with the previous score, and likewise, I could go on and on. Suffice to say, Dragon Racing thrills me every time and Stoick's Ship makes me misty every time.

> Transformers: Age of Extinction (2014) - **

Yep. There's some stuff to enjoy, but for the most part, the best aspects, the reasons people went nuts for the 07 score, were long gone. This franchise has just the stupidest album situation in recent memory, and sadly only the first was arguably worth any trouble.

Oh, and the film's really bad too lol

> The Amazing Spider-Man 2 (2014) - ***½

Man, this one had scarcely a chance in terms of film score fans' opinion. Marketing hype was truly bizarre -- what was the point of so many pop songs for a superhero film? -- and the fact that Zimmer & co. were replacing Horner (whose TASM score ranked as a strong contender for his top 15, and was a top-5 achievement for the new millennium). In the end, it's actually a decent score, though it is all over the place, as you would expect from this indulgent jam band approach. The Electro material is fun, the main theme catchy and fitting (though a clear second fiddle to Horner's amazing Spidey-theme). It just never gels, or even comes off as something Zimmer couldn't do with his usual team of contributors (outside of the Electro track). Personally, I'd knock this one down to three stars or up to four depending on my mood -- though given the album situation with the best material on the deluxe edition, a three-star is deserved.


(Message edited on Friday, December 16, 2022, at 9:28 a.m.)


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Re: Zimmer & friends pt 8d - TBTF 2013-16: Cap, Rio, HTTYD, Spidey 2s + Trans4mrs
Christian Kühn
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Tuesday, January 3, 2023 (12:51 a.m.) 

A belated tid-bit I just stumbled upon and found funny, re: Powell receiving a "Hollywood Music in Media Award" back when...

> How To Train Your Dragon 2 (2014) - *****...but really it’s a
> scale-breaking 6 stars

Meanwhile, film scores were recognized across four genres: feature went to Birdman (Grammy-winning composer Antonio Sanchez also opened the show on the drums); sci-fi or fantasy went to The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug (the film’s composer Howard Shore was in attendance and received a standing ovation); animated film went to How to Train Your Dragon 2 (composer John Powell volunteered, “I stopped working live action because they’re all assholes — you ask Howard, he’ll tell you,” and then accidentally thanked Disney rather than his own film’s distributor, DreamWorks Animation, the Mouse House’s chief competitor); and documentary went to Merchants of Doubt (composer Mark Adler noted that he has now worked with filmmaker Robbie Kenner for 20 years).

Powell strikes me as a quite outspoken fellow...can anybody confirm that from 1st-hand-experience? big grin

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/hollywood-music-media-awards-gregg-746553/


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Re: Zimmer & friends pt 8d - TBTF 2013-16: Cap, Rio, HTTYD, Spidey 2s + Trans4mrs
JBlough
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Tuesday, January 3, 2023 (10:21 a.m.) 

> Powell strikes me as a quite outspoken fellow...can anybody confirm that from 1st-hand-experience? big grin

No, but consider that he's also
- Perhaps the only composer who talks about the ethics of dramatizing real-world violence
- Complained about French wine being too expensive
- Called the horror genre joyless
- Said that film music is a way to pay the bills
- Has made sex jokes in at least two FSM interviews
- Said the writing is much better on television
- Called American governance 'madness, a mixture of theocracy and oligarchy' and said libertarians need to read more
- Compared working at Media Ventures to 'like being a veal, but without the massage'
- Mused about doing a parody score for Triumph of the Will to 'take the piss out of it'



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