> Again, give examples. Do you even know all the themes and motifs? Come on,
> you know what I meant. Even if some themes aren't based on characters,
> then they are based on ideas, things in the story that can't be shown on
> screen, or places and cultures and their ideas. The seduction theme of the
> ring isn't character-based, and yet, who would deny its brilliant
> qualities in the storytelling?
> Such things go far beyond writing a couple of generally applicable themes
> for a film.

agreed. zimmer's themes do tend to not always tie into to the depth of the story (see every score he's written). I was just bringing up the whole character-based themes

> I was referring to a specific theme? I wasn't aware of that. I was just
> pointing out the atmosphere Zimmer creates with that music. It's not about
> packing 30 seconds of music with loads of themes, it's about writing
> imaginative and quality music. And knowing the qualities of all
> instruments in different registers. I've never heard Zimmer using an
> instrument in a way that he hasn't used it in for 10 years.
> Yes, I know, Zimmer sometimes employs unusual techniques, like expanding
> the range of the voices or the strings beyond their usual range. He did
> that on Da Vinci Code. But before you go ahead and expand the capabilities
> of your ensemble, you should have some knowledge about the basic abilities
> of your orchestral apparatus.

agreed...you do get sick of the duduk and the steel cello after a while. I think At World's End represents a better use of the ensemble than zimmer has done in a while, but it still pales to most everyone else in terms of depth. Nevertheless, I'm still entertained by his music, though I do appreciate Gladiator a little less now than I used to.

> Writing a plethora of themes doesn't mean anything. It's the way they talk
> to you, it's what they do that counts, if they have purpose and meaning.

I think Zimmer's themes have purpose. True, they trend towards power anthems and heavy basslines, but they still are rousing and effective. Hoist the Colours certainly spoke to a lot of people...i wasn't the only person humming it out of the theater. I found black hawk's down main theme to "talk" of patriotism. True, sometimes the simplicity makes the themes hollow to you, like most renditions of the davy jones theme.

> I didn't deny the relevance of the scene itself, where did you get that
> from? I wasn't criticising the scene, I was criticising the music,
> obviously. That scene means what the musac (lol, that's a typo I'm glad
> not to correct) makes it seem like. And all the facettes of it aren't even
> scratched on in Zimmer's music.

My bad, felt like you were criticizing the scene. but we aren't even dealing with the separate characters in this track...the guitar riff only plays over the impending conflict and the scene doesn't focus in on individual characters until a minute later...there seems no reason to focus on, say, beckett's determination when every character is being focused on. In that case, the main theme is appropriate.

> I'll just overlook this, seemingly insane, statement.

It’s not insane…power anthems for zimmer are the gladiator main theme, the crimson tide main theme, at least three king Arthur themes, the themes that pound the bass line and simplistic choir…the main theme hear does not fall into that

will respond to rest later